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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans argument comparing adoptive parents to trans people

84 replies

NotTerfNorCis · 21/07/2018 12:37

This analogy seems forced to me, but it got me thinking.

The article says:

Nobody sensible thinks that the existence of adoptive parents undermines our understanding of what it is to be a parent. On the contrary, it extends it.

By implication, the existence of transwomen 'extends' our understanding of what it is to be a woman.

I feel the analogy doesn't work for two reasons.

Firstly, 'parent' is also a verb, and parenting is a role and responsibility. 'Womaning' on the other hand isn't a defined role. There isn't a verb 'to woman', meaning wearing make-up and feminine clothes, working in a low-paid, caring job and deferring to men. 'Woman' is a physical reality - it means adult human female. Anyone who thinks 'woman' is a distinct social role is probably a conservative and not a feminist.

Secondly, 'parent' is a relationship. It's defined entirely in relation to others. 'Woman' is not, except perhaps in the most conservative societies. I know there's a theory that the word 'woman' comes from 'wife of man', but having Googled it that seems to be a misunderstanding.

If the assumption behind the adoptive parent analogy is that 'woman' is a role and a relationship, this speaks volumes for the traditionalist views behind trans ideology.

OP posts:
Barbadosgirl · 21/07/2018 12:56

Actually, Maryz, they do get a new birth certificate with their adoptive parents name on it. However, my son's birth certificate just says we are his parents, which we are. It doesn't lie and say I gestated him in my womb for nine months and then squeezed him out of my fanjo. Neither does it cross his birth mother's name out and say she is no longer his mother or that she is deadmumed or something. She will always be his mother.

I am steeling myself to read this article. As a gender critical adopter, I sense it is going to push every single one of my buttons.

Maryzsnewaccount · 21/07/2018 12:56

How is it a legal fiction?

It's passing on the legal right to parent children from one set of people (the biological parents) to another (the adoptive parents). Nothing fictional about it at all [baffled]

Maryzsnewaccount · 21/07/2018 12:55

As an aside, that type of blog makes me wonder how many TRAs are using MN to gather information Hmm GhostTess seems to have (finally) had some of her posts deleted from near the start of this thread Angry

She's disappeared/namechanged now, but should have been banned for numerous deletions across multiple threads; apparently posters can get as many strikes as they like for appalling insults to and about women, adoptive parents and infertility without being banned. Which means they can namechange and continue, because they aren't PBPs.

It's fucking ridiculous.

enoughisenough12 · 21/07/2018 12:52

These desperate organisations and individuals will appropriate anything - no matter how sensitive an issue - in order to gaslight the rest of us into accepting their narrow view of life.

NoProbLlama78 · 21/07/2018 12:49

Adoptive parents don't tend to talk about their cravings and morning sickness and what drugs they had or how many stitches.

They're also not saying that mothers and fathers are causing them harm by calling themselves mothers and fathers

OvaHere · 21/07/2018 12:48

There are some parallels re the creation of a legal fiction and persons taking on a role (although I agree 'womaning' isn't really a role unless you come at it from sexist stereotypes).

As someone who is an adoptee from many decades ago I can say where the analogy parts way is that we now understand that lying about the truth of biological origins is inherently harmful and not considered good practise. Transactivism has yet to catch up with that.

Maryzsnewaccount · 21/07/2018 12:47

I'd like to add that no-one tells lies about adoption. No-one pretends that their adoptive children are biologically theirs. No-one reissues a new birth certificate with the adoptive parents's names on it.

The whole world isn't forced to lie to not hurt the feelings of adoptive parents and their children.

NotTerfNorCis · 21/07/2018 12:46

I am even more shocked now I realise the author is a feminist philosopher at the Open University. The attempt to weld two completely different things together in that article (adoptive parents and trans people) seemed quite desperate.

OP posts:
Branleuse · 21/07/2018 12:43

I find the article truly shocking.
Adoptive parents are not appropriating parenthood. They ARE parenting
Theyre not trying to stop people talking about giving birth.

Im incredulous. Its nothing like the same thing.