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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Compelled speech.

37 replies

FloralBunting · 20/07/2018 12:09

The recent guideline changes and various discussions on all social media about 'misgendering' have been interesting to observe, not least because of the subsequent shifting of goals.

As predicted, once the TRAs achieved the objective of controlling one aspect of expression, the move began to cast the net more widely.

It was always going to be a straightforward move from being told what not to say to being compelled to say something else.

This is obvious from the practice you can see in various media of repeating the mantra "Transwomen are women" and demanding that the targeted individual repeat the phrase to appease those making the demands.

Those of us who have remained since the guidelines came in have complied with the initial rule to not use specific gendered pronouns for people who object to them by sticking to the use of names and neutral pronouns.

I've noticed this is the next line of pressure - complaints about this reasonable compromise, insisting that neutral is not good enough and that the perceived correct pronouns must be used.

Those that are pressing for this know that if such speech is compelled, it will not mean that those being compelled have changed their views.

But it will do a number of things. It will control. It will humiliate. It will silence dissent and distort the entire narrative.

This is why the language used is such a battleground, and why it would have been very helpful for MN mods to do the course on this kind of controlling behaviour.

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Rufustheyawningreindeer · 26/07/2018 11:10

This pronoun thing is bullshit

Ive managed not to say TWAW or TWANW

Ive managed to not misgender when i know what pronouns a person would prefer...i might use neutral ones but still

But being deleted because someone does want you to use any pronouns (like with the binary neutral bit) is fucking ridiculous

FloralBunting · 26/07/2018 09:40

Worth bumping up given the behaviour of a regular Gadfly and the obsession with attempting to force approved pronouns and the threats and accusations being employed in the attempt.

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terryleather · 21/07/2018 10:20

Flora
I wonder about that too, I think there is a bigger picture but I don't know what it is...maybe just good ol' patriarchy in action!

Indierockandroll · 21/07/2018 10:05

Actually, no gap as doubleplusgood is one word.

Indierockandroll · 21/07/2018 10:04

Indie love the list . So TWAW = duckspeak

That's doubleplus good Alternativefacts

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 21/07/2018 09:58

Yet another reason why the refusal to consider coughing up £12/moderator for the Freedom Programme is so very worrying

Was there an update on this - as I said I am happy to contribute to the Mumsnet Freedom Programme Moderator Fund if needed.

Alternativefacts · 21/07/2018 09:51

Indie love the list . So TWAW = duckspeak

Indierockandroll · 21/07/2018 09:46

Newspeak

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Newspeak_words

FloralBunting · 21/07/2018 09:43

Excellent quotes.

See, this is what I don't understand. These kinds of methods have been discussed by educated, sensible people for decades. And yet they are being employed and waved through with a completely straight face by people who really should know better.

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terryleather · 21/07/2018 09:38

And this...

Compelled speech.
terryleather · 21/07/2018 09:37

This is interesting...

Compelled speech.
Bumbungo · 21/07/2018 09:35

I didn't correct your spelling, I corrected your grammar.

As for driving me daft, I certainly am so by you calling people 'Nazi's'.

I guess you were picking your nose in English as well as Biology class

Indierockandroll · 21/07/2018 09:34

Quite! I used to laugh at the concept of thought crime in 1984...

FloralBunting · 21/07/2018 09:26

Indie, tbh, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. Because we all understand the rules of language, and have to make a concerted effort to circumvent them to deny the evidence of our eyes.

The fact that this wordcrime has been built up to be the very worst thing someone can do is evidence of nothing more than the unreasonableness of narcissism, really.

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Indierockandroll · 21/07/2018 09:25

But I must thank the person who reported it as it will save me from making mistakes and therefore able to post still Grin

Indierockandroll · 21/07/2018 09:22

It was me who got a rap over the knuckles for calling somebody who self identifies as non-binary 'he'

This person presented outwardly as male and I'd previously been watching that person on Sky News with a nephew who had asked what sex that person was.

I won't do that again on here. I will comply with the rules. On here.

FloralBunting · 21/07/2018 09:12

Bespin, I know snark is great fun, use it myself quite a bit, but was there anything other than that you wished to contribute to the thread? Besides encouragement to comply with diktats?

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Bespin · 21/07/2018 01:41

So, it's 'their' not 'there'

Bloody spelling nazis's lol

I'm really suprised anyone in here can let people spell she wrong it must drive people daft when they drop the s.

TheBatPig · 20/07/2018 23:01

Compelled speech is really controlling someone's thoughts is it not? Before you speak words, you have to think them. So it is in my opinion an exercise in mind control. That is an abusers tactic or so I thought.

LaSquirrel · 20/07/2018 22:54

I've noticed this is the next line of pressure - complaints about this reasonable compromise, insisting that neutral is not good enough and that the perceived correct pronouns must be used.

Yes, I noticed that too. Infuriating really. But it is all 'thin edge of the wedge'. Once the thin edge is in, the pressure is applied until the entire wedge is in place.

Can also be described as shifting the goalposts too. All coercive behaviours. Once you have seen them, know them, they are an easy spot.

(Generally speaking, from the DV framework) this is where abusers claim to outsiders, who unaware of the tactics, that the target/victim is "being unreasonable". It is a naive position, to believe that every issue is a 50/50 one, particularly when one side is strongarming the other. Well-meaning 'bystanders' become complicit in enabling the abusers. Read Lundy Bancroft's "Why does he do that?"

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 20/07/2018 18:54

Yet another reason why the refusal to consider coughing up £12/moderator for the Freedom Programme is so very worrying.

ballsballsballs · 20/07/2018 18:04

The goal shifting is very reminiscent of my abusive ex husband.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 20/07/2018 17:09

So mumsnet is instrumental in coercively controlling us?

Yes that's what the complaints about the policing of language were about

MsMcWoodle · 20/07/2018 16:46

So mumsnet is instrumental in coercively controlling us?

Ereshkigal · 20/07/2018 13:50

But if you think I shall be an ally in shoring up the first steps of coercion when this thread is about the fact that one concession will never be enough, you're going to be disappointed.

THIS