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Original poster

Could you get on board with this definition of gender identity?

90 replies

SarahCarer · 18/07/2018 21:45

If sex = biologically male or female and
Gender = the sex based role society expects us to perform
Gender identity = instinctive complicit performance of a sex based role

Not everyone complies instinctively to any sex based role
Not everyone complies instinctively to the role normally imposed on their own sex
Feminism enlightens us and we can overcome our complicity, and resist.

OP posts:
Jamieandwordswo · 18/07/2018 22:22

Gender is a collective outcome.

The categories are real. They are not invented.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 18/07/2018 22:19

I think I am comfortable with the idea that many children instinctively copy based upon perceived categorisation. It is society that categorises. The categorisation is imposed (conditioning). Look at our highly sex based language structure. Every time I refer to someone without using their name I have to remind myself and others of their sex. Pronouns themselves contribute to the categorisation, which I agree is social conditioning.

OP posts:
Original poster
SarahCarer · 18/07/2018 22:13

@Jamieandwordswo And gender isn’t just how we are expected to behave. It is how we are treated by society.
If a rapist rapes me, that’s an outcome of gender but I am not complicit or performing the role of rape victim, or inadequately resisting. True but if rape is an outcome of gender (I think individual male agency is also heavily involved) then the man is complicit in that instance. Men tend to be a lot more complicit with sex roles than women ime. Hence toxic masculinity and rampant homophobia among men.

OP posts:
FissionChips · 18/07/2018 22:08

gender identity” could be defined as a conditioned performance of a stereotyped sex-based role

^^ this.

Cwenthryth · 18/07/2018 22:06

*defined not definite. Autocorrect.

Cwenthryth · 18/07/2018 22:05

I’m not comfortable with the word ‘instinctive’ either.

The first definition of ‘instinct’ on google: an innate, typically fixed pattern of behaviour in animals in response to certain stimuli.

I do not believe gender is innate, as I do not believe that humans express “gender identity” independently of the societal conditioning they are raised in.

I’d counter that “gender identity” could be definite as a conditioned performance of a stereotyped sex-based role.

Jamieandwordswo · 18/07/2018 22:03

Because nobody thinks ‘with a penis’ because everyone knows that is what a boy is.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 18/07/2018 22:00

*How is that an identity?

All human beings learn through imitation.*

Well the child copies the category they think they belong to (And sometimes it is not the category they actually belong to) and because they do that instinctively they don't realise they are copying. So, for example, boy who loves soccer does not think "I love soccer because Dad does and Uncle Jon does and they have penises too...boy thinks "I love soccer because I am a boy"

OP posts:
Jamieandwordswo · 18/07/2018 21:58

And gender isn’t just how we are expected to behave. It is how we are treated by society.

If a rapist rapes me, that’s an outcome of gender but I am not complicit or performing the role of rape victim, or inadequately resisting.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 18/07/2018 21:57

Gender identity = instinctive complicit performance of a sex based role

Most convincing definition I've seen yet

Jamieandwordswo · 18/07/2018 21:54

How is that an identity?

All human beings learn through imitation.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 18/07/2018 21:53

It is instinctive mimicking and modelling oneself

OP posts:
Original poster
SarahCarer · 18/07/2018 21:52

It is instinct mimicking and modelling oneself on others though. It is obviously not instinctive to prefer dresses to trousers for example. That is not what I'm saying at all. But the instinct to copy based upon categorisation may well be there for many children I think.

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DixieFlatline · 18/07/2018 21:49

'Instinctive' implies something which is innate and not down to conditioning. Making the whole premise absurd.

Floorplan · 18/07/2018 21:49

Trufacts