Diva editor, responds to 'lesbian rights alliance' article in the times.

I'm supportive of trans people, you have no idea how Mich. But people don't change sex.

@garam if you want to discuss something real, I am happy to. But I think I will get off this not-so-merry-go-round for now!

@garam I cannot believe you can watch Riley and not find Riley as rapey as fuck!

But then I did predict you wouldnot see what we can all see. Even if trans women were women it is still not up to anyone to try and guilt anyone into sleeping with anyone.

'But they don't have any agenda, they are speaking on their own terms for trans people...'

How do you know this?

'...plenty of lesbians with trans women partners...'

By definition not so. Unless you redefine woman and lesbian. Which you keep trying to do!!!!!!

Hint, if you need to redefine words it makes no sense.

'...most lesbian groups and orgs are trans supportive...' How do you know this? Are they really supportive or do they fear losing funding if they say lesbians are female homosexuals?

'Feeling like a woman/female/lesbian' -- that is someone's subjective experience or way of describing their internal state.

I still kind of feel like a teenager sometimes, but if I turned up at my old school and expected to join the netball team they'd give me some awfully funny looks.

Were those long comments with lots of random quotes meant to make some sort of point? Because all I got was "look at me, I can cut and paste (poorly)".

Is it just me, or are garam's posts really difficult to read on account of him/her bolding the things, s/he's saying, not the quotes from others. It's contrary to the norm - almost as if Black is White in garam world

Nothing is stopping the DIVA crew and their supporters from dangling on dick all day if they so choose. I can see no reason why they just can't get on with that and stop aiming to bend the ear of those who are completely disinterested in doing same.

If my mate wants to have sex with someone and thinks I should have sex with him too, that'd be pretty nonsensical to say yes on her say so wouldn't it, notwithstanding that I'd think she'd lost her mind.

This is just an extension of the penis porn fantasy of having sex with a Lesbian making her take some dick like women are SUPPOSED to..that'll show her what she's missing & put her right back in her place 🙄

Nasty.

Datun i think if what you had just said is the new lesbian.. i think that might finally burst the lesbian sexual fantasy bubble for straight men..

As we are not allowed to define soneone else sexuality

I'm completely fine defining someone else's sexuality. If it's someone with a penis and a woman, it is heterosexual.

Garam

This isn't a game of guess what I'm thinking.

I couldn't care less if it's someone who says they are a lesbian. They don't get to redefine the word lesbian. Whether they are male or female. Or a lesbian or not.

As prawn says you can't just take it all out of the wash and decide a pair of pants is a T-shirt.

So, in your world, let's hear you assert that two men sucking each other off can be having lesbian sex.

Unless you're only comfortable asserting that concept when it doesn't look quite so fucking stupid.

"And people do not get to define someone else's sexuality, including transphobes, who do not have the right to tell lesbians they are no longer lesbian whatever the circumstances."

What is the simple error (or at least recurring rhetorical device) here?

It is a basic, repeated failure to distinguish between the subjective and the objective. Akin to the oft-repeated 'words have meanings' (that is they refer to something external in the real world, like a table or a chair, or a human being), versus the 'words mean whatever I say they mean' of Humpty-dumpty.

'Feeling like a woman/female/lesbian' -- that is someone's subjective experience or way of describing their internal state.

'Being a woman (adult human female), female (check out the genes, biological structures etc etc), lesbian (a female attracted to other females) -- these are objective, or in the case of lesbian, linked to the objective in that although a 'feeling of attraction' is somewhat subjective, it is predicated on you being female for starters!

So, yes, I don't get to argue with someone as to what their own particular subjective experience is (I feel female, I feel like a woman, I am attracted to other women, so I'm a lesbian.........), but we do get to argue when it comes to the objective (but you're not actually a woman because you are male, hence you're not a lesbian either).

And as Prawn pointed out, you don't get to 'redefine' what woman/female/lesbian mean to include those you want to because women/females/lesbians were already using them.

It's the same game repeated over and over and over..............

I am by definition heterosexual, can i self identify as a lesbian whilst in a relationship with a male? I mean it is just a word that can be adapted to suit your personality for the day?

This, from another thread, seems somewhat relevant here

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-didnt-you-say-something-sooneryoure-askinguss_59d560dee4b085c51090ad64?

Oh right, now you are saying you were being sarcastic?

I quoted the Equality Act as it sets out the definitions of 'bisexual' and 'lesbian'.
Its not transphobic for lesbians to say no to people who have a penis, no matter how many internet magazine articles you quote that say otherwise.

As we are not allowed to define soneone else sexuality - when a person defines themselves by naming their sexual orientation as either homosexual or lesbian what do they mean? And this goes out to garam in particular.

Garam, you say you do not get to tell lesbians who choose a trans lesbian partner, they are no longer lesbians.

If a lesbian chooses a transman as a partner, that's a lesbian relationship. However if a woman chooses a transwoman as a sexual partner that's a heterosexual relationship. Words have meanings. Like "woman" the word "lesbian" is not empty space for transwomen to populate. Lesbians are already using the definition.

You criticize so-called feminists who, by peddling hateful and transphobic rhetoric, make people like me not want to use the word lesbian to describe myself because I don’t want to be associated with their views. What a sad state of affairs.

As you seem to be taking terrible care of the word lesbian, washing it with darks, and pulling it completely out of shape, perhaps you could just return it like an overdue library book?

Helpful hint: if contraception could ever have been a consideration then you're not in a homosexual relationship.

Nope Garam, you did though. Why else quote the equality act in a thread about sexuality?
Hahahaha, can’t wait to see that one come to the High Court.
Reckon you might have more luck working on that personality of yours. Better start now because it might take some time.
2D + 69 = L
Yes or no?

"If you think I'm not a woman you can suck my dick" (slight paraphrase because I can't remember the exact wording of that D Muscato tweet on International Women's Day)

No, that's not rapey or coercive at all. No sirree

Which is it- does it lack one lesbian or two?

C'mon garam. Let's be 'aving it.

You keep trying to confuse sexual preference with sexual orientation. Lesbianism is an orientation.

The correct genitalia is the minimum. That's sexual orientation.
After that, it's preference. Blondes or brunettes.

So let's hear you say it. Two guys sucking eachother off is lesbian sex if they both identify as women.

Come on let's have that screenshot off ya.

You can't stop me, floral

*TM Malcolm Tucker

SophoclesTheFox, you feel like Jeremy Paxman, eh? When will you begin identifying as him full time? And will you save up for Paxmanizing facial surgery?

Anyone who feels they've the right to control another person's body, to coerce them into sexual activity they categorically do not want - ie Lesbians who do not want your, or anybody's penis - is a rape apologist.

& entirely deluded because society will NEVER give you what you want, which is some weird edict by which you are able to force acceptance of you as a woman with a penis, and validly claim discrimination in terms of anyone who doesn't want to fuck you, and then compel them to do so.

You can talk around the houses as long as you like - bottom line is, they ain't fucking with you and they don't have to.

I couldn't make head nor tail of them either. It's my ladybrain I expect

Couldn't make head nor tail of those posts, garam

And I'm beginning to feel like Jeremy Paxman in regard to The Question.

Will you answer it? Or not?

Anyway, garam, our breath is so bated we've almost suffocated. This is bordering on cruel and unusual punishment! Put us out of our misery!

2D + 69 = L

Yes or no?