Diva editor, responds to 'lesbian rights alliance' article in the times.

Sorry I didn’t mean to imply that was all bisexuals.

On a personal level I have found women in general are the most bi-phobic group. I wonder if bisexual men have more difficulty being accepted by men? I think we put people on edge, esp if they're not 100% comfortable with the label they've chosen for themselves.

Mirime oh yes, a turn on or a threat, I've had both, sometimes at the same time!

The thing is though I understand why (some) lesbians are wary of bisexual women, so I don't really know what the answer is - but I know it's definitely not forcing ourselves into their communities or shouting biphobia at everything they say.

@WeAreGerbil I hope they are easier, though a quick google last night (after reading too many lesbian feminst blogs) suggested there is still a fair amount of bi-phobia out there - which is why I'm a bit wound up about it today.

I ended up married to a man who accepts me as I am (and doesn't seem to find me being bi a turn on).

I'm sorry some of you have been given grief, dismissed and ostracised for being bi.

Before coming across the whole mess with TRAs, this was the issue that irked me the most about the LGBT "community."

mirime It worked for me for a bit, my father was abusive so being in a community of women was good in lots of ways, and at the beginning I did think I'd never have a relationship with a man again. It just wasn't all of who I was though and it became harder to hide a bit of myself. This was quite a long time ago though, before even LGB was a thing. Perhaps things are easier for young bi women now, I have no idea. My teenage DD's friends all appear to be straight so far.

@RiddleyW Or, you know, we're excluded unless we are willing to pretend to be a 'proper' lesbian.

Really cool to be mistrusted and judged by both gay and straight people and apparently it's fine to stereotype us - we're all confused, gay-but-don't-want-to-admit-it, promiscuous, bi-women are just bi to titillate a boyfriend.

Tantrums? Misogynistic, much?

female biology can and does include the biology of all types of human

It can't and it doesn't. Female biology doesn't include males. Not unless you're bent on destroying any useful meaning of 'female' too.

Re identifying as bi... my dd started uni this year; she's not made any comment re the women students but said all the males she knows are gay or bi. I'm inclined to take that with a pinch of salt TBH.

@WeAreGerbil

Me too. I ended up being a lesbian for quite a while even though it didn't feel right as an identity just to fit in, I can understand the pressure that young people are under to stick with an identity that fits with the community you're in even if it's not quite who you are.

I did the opposite. I'd been bullied at school and there was no way I was changing anything about myself to fit in with another groups expectations of who I should be.

what I do see is a lot of young people (women, not men) identifying as 'bi' or 'queer' when in fact they haven't had relationships with women and are in quite solid relationships with men

This has always been a thing. It's been cool forever (and a turn on for the boyfriends/ husbands) to be bisexual. I've seen young lesbians really hurt by being callously used as part of an experiment.

"The word needs to cover all people who have female biology"

female biology can and does include the biology of all types of human

Now we've got to say members of a certain "reproductive class" although on the thread that this was raised I don't remember what the words were that differentiate between the reproductive classes.

I was told in no uncertain terms that I would not be accepted by the lesbian community locally unless I changed how I dressed and hid being bi

Me too. I ended up being a lesbian for quite a while even though it didn't feel right as an identity just to fit in, I can understand the pressure that young people are under to stick with an identity that fits with the community you're in even if it's not quite who you are.

Can I join the honorary dyke club too?

"So, unliked, hairy, cunty dykes over here please! My kind of people!"

* waves * Hello fellow unliked, hairy, cunty dykes!

@Garam - where does it stop? Seriously, at what point will you actually say "That's enough, we'll stop appropriating those words / spaces." I want to know what you deem 'enough'.

Mumsnet, ban me if you must but a woman is an adult female human. Lesbians are women who are sexually attracted to other women (see my first definition) and there is not a dick in common. FFS.

Yeah the MN guidelines definitely changed because we threw tantrums about it. Totally. That was us yeah.

HotRocker, you're using actual fact, reason and nuance there. I doubt garam is here for that. I think goading and screenshots are probably the length and breadth of it.

Everything in that fits me except for dyke

Also me. And I'd certainly rather be called dyke than cis.

Garam, The word you’re referring to, the one that’s band on here, isn’t banned because we all threw a tantrum. If you read the MN guidelines threads you’ll see most women saying that it should stand. In fact if we were the tantrum throwing types, we would certainly have had your comments deleted from this thread. We prefer to let them stand so lurkers can see exactly what you think, and what kind of people you are.
Unliked, hairy, man hating dyke over here.

Well - political lesbians see all (cunty) women as potential lesbians... yer never know - seems a lot of women find their inner lez around the time of the menopause...

I think I found my inner crazy-cat-lady fuck off I'm a misanthrope.

"So, unliked, hairy, cunty dykes over here please! My kind of people!"

Amen to that.

Everything in that fits me except for dyke

Well - political lesbians see all (cunty) women as potential lesbians... yer never know - seems a lot of women find their inner lez around the time of the menopause...