Diva editor, responds to 'lesbian rights alliance' article in the times.

Lesbians who sleep with people with a penis are bisexual (or possibly heterosexual, thinking about the trans widows who find themselves in what some claim to be a lesbian relationship because their male partner has decided to transition)

It really is as simple as that

Garam, why are you so determined to support a culture which had led to a transwoman threatening to rape a 15 year old girl just because she is lesbian?

Lesbians aren't transphobic for pointing out that that we are female homosexuals, and that transwomen can't be lesbians.

You are incredibly homophobic though.

I'm transroyal, so please respect my identity and bow or curtsey when I enter the room otherwise you will be demonstrating transphobia - which is a hate crime.

In 99% of society this is common sense, on here it seems people don't like to be told not to harass lesbians who disagree with them.

And yet you think we are existing in an echo chamber. I don’t know a single person who thinks a man identifying as a woman can be a lesbian. Some might think they can if they have SRS, the majority have zero idea of original genital retention rate.

In fact I am really done with people putting the word 'trans' in front of a category to which they do not belong as a way of claiming to be part of it.

Enough with enabling appropriation.

In 99% of society this is common sense, on here it seems people don't like to be told not to harass lesbians who disagree with them.

It would be interesting to know what the majority of society would really think if presented with unbiased reporting. And the second part of that sentence seems decidedly arse about face.

'Trans lesbian' is a very offensive phrase by the way.

But you don't get to tell lesbians who support trans women and have a trans lesbian partner, your opinion of their sexuality is more valid than their own.

I can point out their incorrect use of words.

Lesbians who sleep with people who have a penis aren't the ones being harassed, so quit it with the DARVO.

The ones who say 'no' are being called transphobic.

On the original topic, I would like to point out that 135 lesbians isn't zero lesbians. It's 135. I actually agree with some of that statement, especially this: 'It’s not. They are us. We’re one and the same, and we can’t let divisive, hateful and misguided people drive a wedge between us.'

The problem is, for that to be a reality, we have to listen to each other. We have to recognise that there are hateful and misguided people on both sides of the argument. We also have to accept that there are people on both sides making very valid points, points which are usually dismissed and shut down instead of acknowledged. It's possible to be a lesbian and disagree with the protesters at pride and with trans rights activists pushing the notion that having a 'genital preference' most likely means you are transphobic and you really need to unpack that.

The thing is though I understand why (some) lesbians are wary of bisexual women, so I don't really know what the answer is - but I know it's definitely not forcing ourselves into their communities or shouting biphobia at everything they say.

Gosh yes this. I understand why Lesbians are wary of bi women. I was frustrated by it for a time when I was a younger but I got it and never tried to force myself into the lesbian community.
I never once shouted Bi phobia or “called anyone out”. I certainly never threatened violence or phoned their place of work.

transphobes, who do not have the right to tell lesbians they are no longer lesbian whatever the circumstances.

So who is allowed to tell women who do dick and men who dick women that they are not lesbians then?

Should we all just sit and nod while lesbian culture is appropriated by bisexuals, straight women and men?

So, just to clarify, garam thinks that the Equalities Act requires lesbians to say yes to cock?

Pretty sure that wasn't the intent of the people who drafted and passed that law, mate.

Every time certain pp go on about "female lesbians", I might just post this explanation of gay vs lesbian from Modern Family

@BeyondRadicalisationPortal no, it was around penetration of any sort. 'Real' lesbians don't use any sort of penetration and bi women introduce that (as well as sex toys) and that encourages rape and abusive behaviour.

'Lesbian', you see, is a nationality like 'Scottish'. Some people are Scottish because they're born there. Some, because they come to live there in later life. Some have never been there but their family history and name is Scottish. Some have a fondness for tartan - sometimes in kilts or scarves, sometimes in tasteful throw cushions. Others occasionally wear nylon ginger wigs and put on Scottish accents like Russ Abbott.

But they all identify as Scottish. So anyone who wants to be definite about what constitutes being Scottish is clearly a bigot.

Especially as the only people I have had issues with from an STI or a rapey/informed consent perspective have all been in possession of a Y chromosome. Do often wonder if I'd still be bi if the world wasn't so heteronormative...?

I can even empathise with that mirime - I do understand that statistically a bisexual woman is more likely to have an STI than a lesbian woman, so I can see where the thinking comes from. Still feels personally a bit shit, but I do see the point. I guess the rape stuff is around informed consent too? - can't say I've seen worse than that, and again, I can empathise with that position but it still feels crap.

go and tell Diva, go and tell the various lesbian groups

What, to you mean infiltrated penis-centred impostors of lesbian groups?

Not much point in talking to them really.

but I know it's definitely not forcing ourselves into their communities or shouting biphobia at everything they say.

Definitely not, I don't want that either. Some of what I read was definitely bi-phobic though - that we spread STDs to lesbians and essentially rape them. I understand that it's probably a minority saying that sort of thing, but it did leave me feeling quite disheartened.