Diva editor, responds to 'lesbian rights alliance' article in the times.

Given the level of male violence we live with it cannot come as a surprise that a large segment of the male population and a surprisingly large share of the female population do not think women are entitled to say no to men who want to fuck them.

Well, quite, Regina. People can campaign for equal rights in housing, employment, etc. But although incels, TRAs like Riley J Dennis and Drew DeVeaux (who came up with the Cotton Ceiling concept) bitch about being refused as sexual partners, you can't campaign for sexual access to others. Well, you can - I've witnessed it on YouTube - but it's grotesque and repugnant. And depending on who's doing it and how, it can be pretty rapey.

Sex is not a right. No one has to shag you.

What is the motivation for trying to equate one’s innate sexual orientation to racism and fatphobia?

everydayfeminism.com/2016/12/dating-preferences-discriminatory/

This video explicitly states that lesbians can “unlearn” their conditioned repulsion to penises if they just try, because refusing is like saying you’re not attracted to black people.

I never understand why this is thought to be such a winning argument. Everyone is allowed not to be attracted to black people (including other black people) or any other racial grouping. Or fat people. And we can quietly think the worse of them for it if we want to.

But actually trying to shame them and browbeat them out of such an intimate, complex preference is both pointless and wrong. Who cares why anyone does or does not like to have sex with any particular kind of people? No one's sexual freedom of choice to pick or reject any other consenting adult should be curtailed.

May I just say how vile I think you are to compare people rejecting a belief in Genderism to the horrific experience of the AIDS crisis.

Expecting more than 18% of people to believe that women have penises certainly is optimistic.

If a true believer like garam can't bring themself to assert 2D + 69 = L then expecting the general public to go along with "women have penises" is wildly optimistic. The only way self-ID is going to make it into law is covertly.

Wait till the general public realizes that self-ID means that Alex Drummond can change with their teenage daughters at the pool if Alex feels like it.

I can't see how anyone can simultaneously justify 'transwomen are women' (with all that implies) and self ID.

I am expecting this figure to drop once more of wider society becomes aware of this niche market.

Expecting more than 18% of people to believe that women have penises certainly is optimistic. Expecting more than 18% of people to be OK with women and girls being forced to change and shower with penises is misogynistic.

Yes, Milly, but your support (roughly 25% a few months ago) is in free fall as public awareness increases and people realise this is nothing like the homophobia of the 1980s. In fact, quite the opposite.

The disinfectant of sunlight does not help transactivism.

Lol, it's not going to quadruple, Milly. It's going to fall if anything (like it has already).

Only 18% of people support Self ID

Only 17% thought there was nothing wrong with same sex relationships in the mid-80s. Now that figure has quadrupled.

2D+69=L

Only in the world of fannyphobia.

I am going to start a real life survey - if you are watching lesbian porn, exactly how many penises are you enjoying during that experience?

I mean why not, though? If one vagina plus one cock can equal a "lesbian" relationship, why not two cocks? At least in the latter case the individuals involved are engaging in same sex activity.

Think we can safely say nobody is going to say 2D+69=L.

Hence the flounce.

funny as fuck though.

Garam's Paradox :

What is the solution to 2D + 69 = L?

I know I'm after the event but this is the funniest thing I've read on here in ages.

Garam - delusional on so many levels

That's interesting, Melanippe.

Just in case it's interesting to anyone, there are at least two people posting as Garam, given enormous differences in syntax, spelling, style of posting and various other tells.

I feel that the female person Garam is in a sticky position. They are being gaslighted and cut off from outside influences (as they have stated on previous threads) by the trans person Garam.

The point still stands that GC women and men, straight and gay are now making more headway with the conversation in general by using factual information to overcome socialised niceties in order to see the full picture. The sad thing is that the majority of trans persons are the ones who will really suffer here, rather than the politicised and privileged AGPs who are leading the discourse in the media.

A tiny minority? Only 18% of people support Self ID, and how many of them are totally unaware as to how vile TRAs are, the fact that transgender now includes transvestic fetishists?

I think any reasonable minded person can see that we aren’t phobic. People reading these boards with even an ounce of impartiality can read posts from the likes of Garam, Snappity, and Daim, and see what they are about. That’s why transactivists have been so keen to keep this whole thing under wraps. They know full well that the vast majority of people think it’s bonkers at best, and dangerous misogyny and homophobia at worst. #NoDebate wasn’t just a tactic, it was a protection mechanism, because when them and their lies are dragged out into the sunlight, it’s very obvious what’s going on. I think in this case the oxygen of exposure is the best thing, and all we have to do is stack up our facts and our logic and reasoning, and watch the waves of #PeakTrans.
What I’d really like to hear is more from the transsexual community who are being thrown under the bus by this, but if we keep on keeping on then I think we will.
I think the most important thing to remember is that we have no control over what transactivists say or the perceptions they try to create. What they do say however is so utterly batshit that we don’t really need to. I think it’s a case of give them enough rope…
Finally, if I’m in any way phobic for stating that I am a homosexual female who is only attracted to other females, then tough shit. Anyone who thinks that is someone I don’t want anywhere near me.

To be clear I am not wanting to win over TRAs, just to not be wrongly labelled.

And I think we will see hand maidens jumping ship in the months ahead.

Even the very religious can be swung by certain arguments, it just requires one to know what to address with whom. But no, am not wasting time with hard liners just angry to be mis-represented in this way...
Angry of Mayfair!!

"So why do you need to counter an accusation you know isn’t true?"

Because I hate being lied about.

Because people lurk and read and I want them to know the truth.

Because aggressive TRAs are hiding behind genuinely dysphoric people and using them for human shields. These straight dudes will not feel the backlash. No one would even think they are trans!

It's one of the reasons I don't use the word t-phobic, just phobic because it is such a fucking stinking lie that those of us who know and care about trans people are phobic of them just because we recognize a potential threat to our safely, dignity nd autonomy when we see one!

Because the perception we are phobic might lead to some people disengaging from us

But, yes, "There’s a danger with that - when someone starts to accuse you (generic you) of transphobia it puts you on the back foot, you spend time and energy showing you’re not and it detracts from what you are actually arguing."

I can see your point.

Great post @Bowlofbabelfish

For me I think I can say "The female socialization is strong with this one!!"

Don’t waste your energy arguing with The Faithful. Spend it on talking to the public.

Some people’s minds you will never change. You wouldn’t argue with a religious fundamentalist - they’re never going to agree with you.

Sensible calm evidence based discussion will win this if it’s winnable. The activists are so far from the centrepoint off reason that their actions are counterproductive- as we see here all the time.

Men defending rape, men telling us that men can be lesbians, men telling us that science is wrong. The hyperbole, the flouncing, the utter hogwash and logical incoherency of it.

When someone can’t reapond calmly to an argument with facts and can only yell bigot at you, they’ve lost. If their argument stood up, they could argue it.