Transgirl in friend's school

I hated getting changed in front of other girls at school. If I'd have to have changed in front of boys as well I wouldn't have done any sport.

There's also the need for single sex toilets to be built (and maintained) because of the risk of rape.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/aug/28/toilets-india-health-rural-women-safety

An old article I know - still holds true

It’s interesting to see you have not even attempted to justify your framing of girls right to privacy as transphobia SarahAr.

It’s extremely useful to see what arguments you can’t engage with. These are the ones we need to push, here and outwith mumsnet.

And I’m sure when you pop up on another thread there will be someone to remind you of the remarks you’ve made here, and hold you to account for them.

I went to an all girls school. I have brothers.
As a teen I would not be naked in front of them, and I can still remember feeling so embarrassed at having to shower in front of other girls.
I don't think men have a clue how difficult puberty is for girls, that's why so many don't give a fuck

LemonJello, a great point that should be restated in every debate over single sex loos.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I am done with justifying girls need for single sex toilets.

As UNESCO have said in their most recent gender report, “Single sex toilets are desperately needed...to address adolescent girls’ concerns over privacy, particularly during menstruation”

Unless you can show me a significant body of research that shows girls in this country are somehow exempt from these same concerns, it is off the table for doscussion.

Good on that principle.

Although I do hope the unused toilet isn't the accessible toilet because that would be unfair on the disabled students who require it.

It's not about transphobia it's about changing with people who have the same body and deserve to have that privacy.

How long would it take before all the teenage boys took the trans route if they could change with the girls.

Someone needs to tell them NO.

Another point is that 12 yo girls need to discuss their periods in the toilet due to the frequent accidents they have where they need help from friends outside the cubicle but within the toilet room, and maybe wash blood form their hands. Give these girls a break and dont humiliate them in front of an older male. Older boys are scary to girls with no older brothers i can tell you.

(I don't know if it's actually possible to sling confetti though...)

Please do go on SarahAr. Don’t be shy now.

SarahAr surely this is an example of how people have examined a situation, on a case-by-case basis, and found a good solution?

Rather than transphobia?

Slinging accusations of transphobia around like confetti really is counterproductive.

That's exactly the solution found for the transboys in DD's school, SarahAr, and was with their full agreement, as I understand it.

I assume you aren't calling them cis-phobic for not wanting to change with natal males?

Thank you for demonstrating how much trans rights conflict with the rights of women and girls, so that a solution that respects everyone’s right to privacy and dignity is deemed to be transphobic.

YY

More please Sarah.

Please tell parents on this parenting website why safeguarding practices are 'transphobic'.

Thank you for demonstrating how much trans rights conflict with the rights of women and girls, so that a solution that respects everyone’s right to privacy and dignity is deemed to be transphobic.

YY. Not sure if some posters realise how eye opening it is for others.

And yet again MN's ugly transphobic underbelly comes to the fore.

Thank you for demonstrating how much trans rights conflict with the rights of women and girls, so that a solution that respects everyone’s right to privacy and dignity is deemed to be transphobic.

Its really helpful for some real life work I am doing, so thanks for helping with that.

And this act of transphobia is celebrated on MN.

Alternatively a respectful solution was found which was best for all concerned, and the needs and feelings of women and girls were considered. Horrific!

Sensible heatdteacher!

Getting changed in front of other teenage girls was bad enough (no cubicles or curtains in our school change). I can’t imagine having to do it in front of someone that we’d known was a boy.

Presumably the 17 year old is in 6th form so no compulsory PE - what would the head of done a year earlier?

I know some schools offer use of staff facilities as a compromise.

Agree that disabled spaces shouldn’t be co opted.

Maybe if you cared about safeguarding you;d make an effort to understand it.

And yet again MN's ugly transphobic underbelly comes to the fore.

A school principal denies a transgirl the use of the women's toilets on the grounds that the 17 year old transgirl would be some kind of threat to a 12 year old girl. And this act of transphobia is celebrated on MN.

Does the transgirl have a criminal history of sexual abuse? Do the toilets not have doors on their cubicles?

there's no consideration at all in the trans ideology. Trans people are just as capable as being considerate as anyone else. A while ago my trans friend asked me what I would feel like if they walked into a toilet behind me, though not them but another trans person. I said I would be wary. Roll on a couple of months and she's declaring that she won't go into the women's toilets in case she upsets people. Luckily our town centre has a couple of coffee shops with single room toilets. (I'm sure I wasn't the only person asked this question).

There's no such consideration in the ideology. Instead girls are being taught (in schools no less) that they don't deserve any consideration.

So good on that HT

I was going to say the same as lurkakus. And not just toilet but "changing facility". What if a disabled student needs the toilet whilst someone is in there getting changed? And then to go on "the trans student might not be happy with this in which case... Another option". Zero consideration of other people's needs.