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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Misgendering and abusive male pattern behaviour

112 replies

lisamuggeridge · 16/07/2018 20:13

As far as I was aware all mothers had a legal responsibilit to identify and stand up to male pattern abusive behaviour. Its fairly well defined, the duluth wheel, intersectionality, case law, we know what abusive behaviour is. If someone is demonstrating male pattern abusive behaviour they are expressing their gender, so how can you be misgendering them by identifying and managing that risk? Are we not legally required to disregard identity when male pattern abusive behaviour is demonstrated? Has this changed?

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KataraJean · 16/07/2018 21:47

I think you raise an interesting point Lisa ; social work assess the ability of the person with primary care (usually the mother) to keep their child safe. It was the massive eye-opener to me that when xH was investigated for offences by the police, it was me who was investigated by SS (when I had done nothing wrong). I was the victim of abuse, not the perpetrator.

However, if you are talking about male-pattern violence, that implies it is an attribute of sex, rather than gender, I think. It is a way of upholding sex-based hierarchies. Violence may be a result of male socialisation and the gendered expectations of men in society, rather than innately of biology, but it is not their gender which makes men violent, because gender is not a thing which belongs to an individual - they are male sex, and socialised to a range of sex-based expectations (power, control over women), which feminists used to call gendered expectations (masculine/feminine).

I don’t know, I may be nit-picking and I am full of respect for you and what you are doing, so I hope my comment is not seen as unhelpful.

So, I think the argument is that, even if someone says they are identifying as female, but exhibits male-pattern domestic violence or abuse which puts women and children at risk, then they are expressing their socialised natal sex, not their assumed gender.

The counter argument would be that women are of course violent too, but that is a whole different argument which is not borne out by statistics or comparable.

Snappity · 16/07/2018 21:46

Am. I understanding the OP correctly?

If some supports trans women as women or that doctors should decide whether and when trans children should receive treatment, that is male pattern abuse so anyone advancing those arguments should be gendered male and male pronouns used to describe them?

I really hope I have misunderstood. Please tell me I have. I am struggling with the OP because it is not clearly written.

lisamuggeridge · 16/07/2018 21:42

@popchyk its that THOSE are the two demands along with a demand that lesbians give up their identity and boundaries and an obscene level of obsession with sex.

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lisamuggeridge · 16/07/2018 21:41

Apparently children being taught they have boundaries, basic safeguarding, children being central stakeholder in a discussion about child protection, frameworks for contested medical treatment, safeguarding, is hate speech and being mean. Whatever it is that is going on, its quite the demonstration cos I dont think these frameworks are gpoing anywhere and I think you have to take attacks on them at face value even if the person doing it is just managing a fragile identity. Adults dont get to behave that way in this country as far as I knew. Till the term TERF was invented, which to be honest aint that new.

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Popchyk · 16/07/2018 21:40

"This plus the push for demedicalisation for adults and medicalisation for children. The push to get children medicalised younger. "

This.

We are hearing two simultaneous mantras from one powerful lobby:

  • Adults must not be medicalised because that is inhuman
  • Children must be medicalised
IAmLurkacus · 16/07/2018 21:39

Thank you Lisa for always articulating so well how this should all be viewed through safeguarding frameworks.

This is national grooming on the scale of Savile and it is FUCKING APPALLING.

newtlover · 16/07/2018 21:36

well, it's mostly being pushed by younger people who have never had to face up to such responsibilities

LangCleg · 16/07/2018 21:35

As we've said many times hereabouts, schools are being given guidance that advise accepting confidential disclosures and doing away with multi-agency working. Add this to the legal duty of mothers under the Children Act to identify risk or make themselves vulnerable to a care order removing their children, WTAF is going on?

AtreidesFreeWoman · 16/07/2018 21:30

I'm often astounded that some people can't see this for what it is.

Language is profoundly important and there is no more effective tool to coerce people than to eradicate their ability to contextualise the issues by deliberately re-defining the the key terms of the debate and/or seeking to make truths unsayable.

Bowlofbabelfish · 16/07/2018 21:20

Women have always been the thin line between children and those who wish to harm them.

Anyone lobbying for women’s rights to be diminished is suspect.

Anyone lobbying for anything that will both reduce women’s rights and their ability to protect their children is suspect.

Anyone lobbying for actions that will actively damage child safeguarding is suspect.

This plus the push for demedicalisation for adults and medicalisation for children. The push to get children medicalised younger.

Deeply, deeply worrying.

lisamuggeridge · 16/07/2018 21:18

I have been using the acronym TERF, when it has institutional backup, like with La Graun and Labour and the other political parties, as an admission they are not aware of the rule of law in this area, which after austerity is not suprising. Same with contested medical treatment for kids. Even if a kid is within Fraser Guidelinesyou cant discuss treatment without prognosis, implications, side effects, age and maturity of the child. Its almost like this is being pushed by media nad academic and political institutions who are not aware of these frameworks. That there are posters attacking mothers for knowing the law that binds them, that they are the bottom line of responsibility for with an acronym which accompanies violence and demands of subordination is extraordinary. The only adults who demand that other people are harmed to manage their identity are those demonstrating risk.

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NettleTea · 16/07/2018 21:15

I agree with you.

I also dont understand where safeguarding has gone when it comes to whats happening to kids - why a thorough investigation and exploration of the previously acknowledged triggers for gender discomfort are not permitted to be investigated, just taking a child's, or a parent's word.