Sex by deception

I'm interested in why you picked natal female virginity as one of the things you mentioned Snappity. Why is that?

Snappity please don't quote me only in part. If you are going to persist in quoting me, please quote the whole post. Otherwise, It's misquoting me.

If you are arguing for informed consent as an overarching principle, that has to include any issue you personally perceive as relevant, No?

If that includes knowing the number of previous partners to make consent informed for you personally, how is that different to anything else?

Whether you agree the previous partners question should be asked in the first place is not the point. The question is about informed consent.

If I personally deem that information necessary to make my consent informed, that's my prerogative. It's not up to anyone to tell me what information is or is not relevant for me to make an informed decision based on my system of values.

If I decide informed consent to me means that person has never been on an aeroplane, for example, that's up to me as an individual to decide. If I find out they've been on Concorde, they've deceived me and my decision wasn't informed.

How is that equivalent to not declaring medical status that would give me a life changing disease?

Everyone is agreed on the disease thing.

But the big question is if you have sex and fail to disclose something which, if disclosed, might have meant the other partner wouldn't agree to sex, should that be criminal? I see arguments both ways but picking out trans history as one of the few things which must be disclosed is wrong. If informed consent is the standard then the scope should be broad.

This sort of thing has hitherto been confined to the deepest, dankest corners of inceldom and 4chan. Most troubling to see it make its way to the mainstream and who is supporting it. Male supremacist ideologies are unpleasant things at the best of times but there are times when it's nigh on impossible not to do a bit of sick in your mouth at the things deemed "reasonable".

I thought the MRAs and TRAs wanted to roll women's rights back to the 1850s but I see now they are aiming for the 1500s.

That virgin declaration comment by Snappity is one of the most offensive things I have ever read on here.

I met my current partner online. I have a disability that severely affects my life, and I also have a psychiatric illness that can cause real problems from time to time. I told her before we met in person, because I didn’t want to put her in an awkward position being faced with a disability that she wasn’t aware of, but I also told her because if it was a problem for her, I didn’t want to go any further and get hurt. It’s basic human decency and common sense, and if I enter into a relationship with someone, then find out later something about them that I consider very important or a deal breaker, I’d be very suspicious of their motives. If someone does that, it just tells me that they can’t be trusted.

I believe having sex without disclosing known std status can lead to actual bodily harm charges.

I also wonder how we're meant to prove that someone lied about being a virgin. Bloody sheets test? It's all a bit medieval.

Hot rocker- the virgin thing is a total red herring.

I’m sure most men would be fine if it was against the law for women to lie about whether they are virgins. They wouldn’t like it so much if women started demanding they only sleep with virgins. In fact if women started saying no at the bedroom door because the man isn’t a virgin, there’d be a lot more rapes and violennce.

I have real sympathy for some trans people, but I do want the right to know before I consent to any sexual activity. I’m not saying they would have to tell on the first date because weighing up my right to know and theirs to a degree of privacy, but when it gets to violation territory I absolutely have a right to know. As potential partner may or may not choose to withdraw their consent but that’s just life. In the same way that women (and men) and withdraw consent for any tiny reason they feel like. It doesn’t have to be fair. That’s sort of the point of consent, it’s an absolute right.

The right of everyone to refuse unwanted sex is important and should not be diluted in law.

Exactly. And only subscribers to MRA ideology say different.

I’d be happy to throw a bone and tell all one night stands I was infertile (if only to see how many were terrified and how many happy to have another layer of contraception) if it didn’t play into the mae coercion of denying the very difference between me as a female and a trans person.

So do I have to declare my virginity before I have sex with someone, or is the not declaring a crime?

How is that equivalent to not declaring medical status that would give me a life changing disease?

MRA rhetoric on a feminist forum. How um... [redacted].

It is however a useful life skill to learn to recognize male supremacy when it's attempting to disguise itself as something more benign.

The right of everyone to refuse unwanted sex is important and should not be diluted in law.

But I think the response to that is telling. If it is those trans people who have to disclose that's OK, but if informed consent starts applying to other women suddenly it is offensive. That's a massive double standard.

Bollocks

Not a double standard at all, we all agree that HIV and diseases should be disclosed

I said marital status was a good one

Im allowed to say that the virginity one is a dumb one

Doesnt make me fucking anti trans

You like raspberry jam and i like strawberry...that doesnt make me transphobic either

Not agreeing with everything snappity says doesnt make someone transphobic

Sorry - so if a person lies about virginity (because they were raped perhaps? Who knows? Do they do that a lot?) then they should go to jail - because that's the equivalent of "gave someone aids"?

I think you're confusing belief systems ("I want an untouched woman!") and physical violation ("I don't want a penis inside me!")

The implications of this are troubling and, frankly, downright sinister.

Indeed. This sort of thing has hitherto been confined to the deepest, dankest corners of inceldom and 4chan. Most troubling to see it make its way to the mainstream and who is supporting it. Male supremacist ideologies are unpleasant things at the best of times but there are times when it's nigh on impossible not to do a bit of sick in your mouth at the things deemed "reasonable".

The "proving it" thing is an interesting one.

I think Snappity means "how would a transwoman prove they told a woman they had a penis?" (Since women would lie of course.)

My question would be, since women can't actual prove real demonstrable rapes, how would they prove that "X didn't said they had a penis, but turns out they but did"?

Hotrocker of course it was.