Is FWR anti feminist?

I didn't read the horrible comments that were apparently made about Irish people (and to you if you were on the receiving end) - but didn't think Irishness was a race?

Not in the 'protected characteristic under the Equality Act' sense anyway. Was that why they didn't get banned?
I would have thought joking about someone being Irish would be like teasing the French for eating frogs or losing at historic sea battles, but am ready to be educated. Have I missed something? Other than the point, for which apologies

(My grandmother's family were Irish, and we have Irish connections by marriage too (potato gags abound) so this is coming from a friendly point of view.)

But where is the hate speech though? We keep asking but we never get an answer. It’s like all this violence that we do to trans-women. It happens all the time apparently, but for some reason they’re either unwilling or unable to provide any evidence.
Also, genuine question, what is the difference between hate speech and literal violence, for example refusing to say that transwomen are women? Seems to me that if I write transwomen are not women on here they won’t try to claim it’s violence because it literally isn’t, but if I were to say it in public to someone’s face, and there was no one around to back me up, it would then be violennce, if you know what I mean. So hate speech and literal violence are the same thing but in different contexts, i.e., if it’s a context where you can’t prove its actual violence then it’s violence, but if it’s just words on a screen which are provably not violent, then it’s hate speech. Or in more simple terms, the impact of the accusation has a direct correlation to how provable the accusation is. Am I along the right lines here?

I wasnt trying to say racism is ok, just that the trans issue is a very fragile one right now and that this website seems to be used almost as a gladitorial arena. I'm sure that mumsnet must be worried about the repercussions they may face if they tolerate 'hate speech, which seems to.be are increasingly fluid and elusive term.

I think the three strikes should be applied across the board assuming the offending poster has left time between the offences to be informed that he/she has actually got strike one and two.

What now cocoa

Lots of 'racism' has been allowed to stand on mumsnet and disablism and benefits bashing etc

Its not just one thread

The trans issue is a much more topical and inflammatory one than a random poster making 'paddy' jokes though to be fair. Irish people are doing ok on the whole.

I guess so hot

Maybe they would just 'feel' their way out of being a target of racism...maybe thats the theory

So am I to take from this that blatant racism is a lesser offence than hurting somebody’s gender feels? I mean what actual phobia or isms are being posted on FWR, besides the blatant misogyny, sexism, homophobia and lesbophobia I mean?
The mind boggles…

betty

Maybe

Shedloads of potentially vulnerable groups of people on mumsnet and apparently only a few are untouchable

Yeah...im not shocked. But why? Why are FWR held up to a much higher standard than The rest of mumsnet

I guess we mustn't upset the menz - as always....

I agree with dragoncake

However

I'm not shocked as it seemed obvious to me that it would only apply to posters on FWR..AIBU would be shut down in about 2 minutes if similar draconian measures were implemented there

Yeah...im not shocked. But why? Why are FWR held up to a much higher standard than The rest of mumsnet

Why is potential transphobia so so so so much fucking worse than sexism, homophobia, islamaphobia, racist, disabalism. Picking on people on benefits (no idea what thats called...general cuntiness i suppose) agism

There has to be a reason? C'mon fess up...whats the reason

I'm sorry Amal I sounded judgemental.

Women's meetings cancelled, women held to higher standards if they discuss issues that directly affect them? Yup, just shows the misogyny we face and why we need to keep speaking up and out.

I think sometimes, some of the mods aren't 100% clear themselves. A difference mod might well have made a different judgement.

I don't think MN is in any way 'anti feminist' but sometimes isn't as robustly anti racist and anti disablist as it should be. On a parenting site, the latter may be the most important in terms of negative effect on members.

I've reported this to seek clarification.

I'm not interested in 'picking a fight' either - and HQ know me and I'd like to think they know I'm reasonable, and try to be helpful.

But yesterday was upsetting, with that barrage of "Irish people are stupid" and Irish-people-dying-in-famine "jokes", coming, as it did, on the 13th July. (Probably no co-incidence).

I think it's bad that a racist poster wasn't deleted.

I don't think it's worth picking a fight with MNHQ over this. Just my view, but I really really don't.

I've just been re-reading the new TGs. So, there are still the general ones, then a link to the specific ones on all the trans stuff. At the bottom of that, there are clarifications under Justine's orignial post. One of them is:

Will FWR be the only area of the boards where we have a three strikes system?
We haven't had to formalise this elsewhere, but in practice, three deletions would usually lead to a suspension elsewhere on site.

The poster in question had 5 racist/abusive posts deleted in the space of one day! @Amalfimamma the message you received, above, surely directly contradicts Justine's clarification.

I have mixed feelings. Yes, it's a double standard. It is. Obvious and frustrating.

OTOH, MN is the only place where women can meet in large numbers to discuss the negative implications of transactivism for us, children and transsexuals. @MNHQ are under enormous pressure. It would be a disaster if this place were to disappear.

If MN were the only place online where people could discuss abortion they would be coming under similar pressure.

I dislike the double standard but am happy to accept some level of compromise on fairness to keep this place open.

Also, moderation seems to have been less harsh lately. A few acronyms have been left to stand.