Historically Claiming People as Trans

The Mormons and their free ancestry search websites the unsuspecting users do not realize are being used to posthumously baptize the deceased family members.

But harmless and stupid, nonetheless. Imaginary point scoring in the sky? Seems a rather silly and futile exercise in religious numbers gathering...

The whole idea was small vocal chords and a man's chest capacity which produced an irreproducible sound. There are songs written for castrati that can no longer be sung how they were originally intended.

Isn't it just the same vocal range as a soprano though? Was the castrati phase just another of men trying to prove themselves better than women? To usurp women?

It appears that the more restrictive the gender roles were of a hierarchical society the more likely they were to make formal legalistic provisions for males of the upper class to deviate from those restrictions.

YetAnotherSpartacus
There was a movie made about a famous castrati - can't remember what it was called though.

Farinelli

But indigenous peoples have been appropriated to support lots of things that having no written records means cannot be substantiated.

8iiu

“We find more divergence from man/woman within many indigenous cultures before the crusades and colonialism asserted that to diverge from man/woman is to stray from god.”

Well, there is some speculative thinking to that effect..........

Periodically throughout history men make an concerted effort to erase women from the written record.
We are witnessing one of those times now.
Not quite the same as the ongoing dismissal by self serving archaeologists and religious leaders who repeat their zombie lies to support the man made myths.

I’ve seen Joan of Arc and Queen Hetshepsat transed as well as James Barry.

Have they claimed Mulan yet? Disney are woker than anyone realised.

James Barry/Margaret Bulkley is something of a heroine of mine. I really recommend the most recent biography James Barry: A Woman Ahead of Her Time in which the authors are very clear that they believe she dressed as a man in order to train as a doctor and thought the shame of being exposed as a woman and ruining her army career was too much to risk.

She's due to be played by Rachel Weisz in a movie and there are lots of trans folk on Twitter claiming that it's shameful erosion of 'their' history. Some idiot Evening Standard columnist mentioned it this week. It makes me so angry. They are eroding women's history by failing to recognise how sometimes dressing as a man was the only way to, say, train as a doctor in the early 19th century.

Yes, Marsha did say he was a gay man and a drag queen. There have been rebukes to that effect in the attempts to edited his wiki... then TRAs claiming this is transphobic...

It’s actually fundamentally important re the history of the gay civil rights movement (and the origins of drag) that he was a gay man and a drag queen and this is why the TRAs want him, and all other GNC in any way people, no matter if their GNC was activism against gender...

There are many parallels with what I read of the puberty blockers - oh dear those poor children

There was a movie made about a famous castrati - can't remember what it was called though. On youtube there is a clip from the last remaining castrati although he was old and past his best in terms of singing when it was made. The whole idea was small vocal chords and a man's chest capacity which produced an irreproducible sound. There are songs written for castrati that can no longer be sung how they were originally intended.

There is ZERO consideration given to the possibility that these people might have "really" been women...

Because they can't be because look short hair and a suit.

And women have no desire to get involved in anything dangerous, step outside their role.

And if a person has short hair and wears a suit and loves a woman then they must have "really" been a man.

Yep no misogyny / homophobia to see here at all, no sirree bob.

I thought Marsha gave an interview where they said they were a drag queen, and a gay man.

The transing of historical GNC women especially lesbians is vile. The gender role for women and girls has been (and still is) outrageously narrow, the idea that anyone who wanted to exist outside that narrow box was a man is extremely misogynistic, the fact that some women adopted a male persona to do things they were otherwise barred from is a grotesque misdirection.

Previously it was
That it was bad that women who wanted to do certain things had to pretend to be male, this show misogyny

New spin is that
These people were actually men, as only men want to dress that way and do those things. The stories demonstrate transphobia that these people could not be "out" as trans. There is no sexism / misogyny as by definition, women do not want to dress that way / do those things, so that aspect can be disregarded and forgotten. The real story in all of this is the trans story. There is no female story - these were all men.

When all you have is a hammer, all else is a nail.

When 'transgender' is your only point of reference, then all who don't conform to gender stereotypes must be transgender.

Not gay. Not mould breaking. Not bad ass. All must be transgender.

There's a new film coming out where Marsha P. Johnson will be portrayed as a transwoman not a gay drag queen.

If you Google him, there are still 'older' references (including the New York Times obituary) which refer to him as a gay drag queen.

Newer entries (from about mid 2016) refer to him as "transgender".

So perhaps somebody needs to cond up with a snappy name for it. Then people can start using it and it can enter the vernacular like all the other new words we have had to learn and accommodate.
Maybe false retro claiming -FRC. Not very snappy though. Others are better at this than I am.

When men impose strict codes of behaviour on women, the women who want to live find ways to do so.

eh? we are talking about some of the least misogynistic societies that have have ever existed, and different gender identities flourished.

Misogynistic cultures tried to wipe out various types of trans people as they did those with homosexual identities.

And misogynistic cultures and beliefs are still trying to deny trans people.

When men impose strict codes of behaviour on women, the women who want to live find ways to do so.

No one has the right to trans people retrospectively; its no different from 'dead naming'.

They used the only language that was available at the time, but has come to be understood in modern terms as under the trans umbrella, and it isn't just trans people claiming this.

The point is with historical figures you can not ask them in modern terms.

But people who have surpassed the binary modes of modern western culture have existed throughout history throughout the world.

We find more divergence from man/woman within many indigenous cultures before the crusades and colonialism asserted that to diverge from man/woman is to stray from god.

How it worsk is because any women in history who has ever done anything of note that was not related to femininity must have been a man.

This is because men are for doing stuff and women are for looking pretty.

No sexism to see here at all.

'Denial of the right of existence of entire human groups' is contrary to
international law.
When those groups are murdered, its genocide. But there are other ways to destroy distinct groups, by destroying their culture, or by assimilation.

It's just homophobia in a new form, IMO. Cross dressing and being gender nonconforming has traditionally been part of/associated with gay and lesbian culture, at a time when gay and lesbian men were afraid to express themselves freely.

I had a TRA try and retrospectively trans me earlier this week and I’m very much alive!
They were of the view that as I was gender non conforming that meant I had a “trans” experience. I’m a butch lesbian. I’m a woman. I am categorically not trans and nor will I ever be. My “experience” is entirely that of a butch lesbian.
If they can try it on with the living, the dead have no hope.

The Mormons and their free ancestry search websites the unsuspecting users do not realize are being used to posthumously baptize the deceased family members.