Is transgenderism a cult?

I can never understand people complaining about here and still coming back to post - it's a forum - there are plenty about where you no doubt would find like minds

It's quotes from upthread nauticant, in response to OldCrone. So yeah, never going to "hang together". Thought that was clear really.

It was as hard work to read as well! It doesn't really hang together and comes across as random internal musings.

Any of them in particular, Rat? I'm always up for a bit of self-analysis.

"It's all there - the love bombing, the promise of a better life, the isolating from mainstream society, the scapegoating and othering of anyone who recognises what's really going on."

Er, yeah...

"They try to mind control RRH by gaslighting her instincts"

Your instinct to be kind and inclusive is actually your "female socialisation" and you need to reject that! Ignore your instincts, men put them there to enslave you.

"Nobody is allowed to question the ideology"

Believe me, life is tough when you do.

"Encouraging children to find their 'rainbow' family and not listen to their actual family"

Your actual family just don't understand what's at stake.

Excluding and abusing anyone who dares to speak against the accepted narrative

Yup. Feminists who ain't GC ain't feminists, right?

"Submission" - check
"Exclusivity" - check

"Persecution complex
1 - Us against them mentality. Therefore, when someone (inside or outside of the group) corrects the group in doctrine and/or behavior, it is interpreted as persecution, which then is interpreted as validation."

SO MUCH CHECK. Someone within the group can't even comment when they think some other posters are taking things too far because they're accused of" tone policing".

"4) Control
1 - Control of members' actions and thinking through repeated indoctrination"

How many of the same thread, over and over? How many of the same conversations, how many of the same posts between the same people?

"Love Bombing"

Great Post, wonderful post, awesome post, fantastic post...

"indoctrination
1 - The teachings of the group are repeatedly drilled into the members"

Did I mention repeat threads?

"Shunning
1 - Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled." - Check

"Gender Roles" - oh wait, you think what? You must be a man. Men think like xyz, men come in here and talk to us like that, you must not be a woman, you're defo a man.

"diminished sense of humour." - I used to try. Don't even bother now.

"A number of different interest groups have latched on to this for different reasons with the common goal of obtaining power and influence" - yep!

God, that was hard work!

I know a good number of them are true of the MN Feminism boards though. Not enough that I'd call it a cult, but so many that I'm surprised you guys hadn't noticed when posting those lists

Ohhhh! I missed it. Who is (y)our God-like leader and prophet? Who has special knowledge and who has been threatened with being cursed?

I say 'your' because I haven't been party to any of this.

You have all been off having a cult without me. Meanies.

Anyway, I don't care because I don't want to be part of any group that would have me anyway. So NEAH!

Interesting article.
It's certainly got a lot of the cult boxes ticked, but lacks the central god-leader figure. I wonder if that's an evolution of the nature of cults in the age of the Internet though? Perhaps a single leader was necessary pre-Internet but now the space can be filled by a gestalt entity of numerous individuals.

The incel movement equally seems very cult-like and also doesn't have a "leader" as far as I know, so maybe it's a flaw in the definition of a cult rather than a reason why this isn't a cult.

I've got a teenage son, bright, clever but now he thinks he's a girl. Nobody expected him to be butch, we wouldn't care if he was gay. Anything was a possibility. Except for becoming female

Yes it's a bloody cult!

It would be interesting to see the role of influencers within these movements. Some people can be influential without needing to lead from the front.

The leadership one is the most contenious.

There for me is where most conspiracy theories fall down. When something undesirable is happening, it doesn't mean there's some sort of control entity arranging it all.

Look at the shambles over Brexit, it's not that there's a Dr Evil behind the scenes, it's that there were a load of conflicting interests some of which are pulling in broadly similar directions.

wrong thread

Beth Rigby @BethRigby
May must be quietly seething at this pre-summit wrecking ball remarks. Mood music from the top of the bi-lat is that he’s going to be doing a bit of rowing back #Chequers #Trump

And when he doesn't....

I might switch off twitter for the afternoon and pretend its not really happening too.

Peter Geoghegan @PeterKGeoghegan
Rees Mogg allowed to declare unchallenged on #r4today that a hard border in Ireland is ‘a red herring’ and will be no change to border. Ffs. No mention that it was day 6 of dissident republican rioting in Derry last night

If you don't want to see it. Magic. If no one mentions it, it isn't important.

I disagree that some go looking for belonging

It's probably more that some people are more vulnerable to being recruited because of a need to belong. Strong, independent people who are content with their lives are unlikely to be recruited into a cult. People who have suffered bullying or abuse are more likely to accept the welcoming arms of a group of people who appear to want to look after them. I don't think that's victim blaming.

That said, my experience is that some people do like to be told what to do and how to live. For some, the uncertainties of adult life are too difficult to navigate, and being in a perpetual child-like state with others taking responsibility is preferable.

I'm loving the implication that 82% of the population is the cult, not the 18%.

Lol, only minutes ago I was posting how constantly repeating that 80% start in various different incarnations doesn't make what you're saying true.

If simply not being PRO self-ID was enough for someone to be on "your" side, then you can stop arguing with 99% of the pro-trans poster's who come on here.

But not being pro self-ID does not put anybody on "your" side, just so you know. I mean come on now, you're not that silly.

There are cults in the workplace, friendship groups, voluntary organisations, on Mumsnet, everywhere you find more than one person. Some are more benign than others.

Hmm... no.

Those are cliques. Not cults.

BIG difference.

The leadership one is the most contenious.
But yes, the money and the celebrities.

I disagree that some go looking for belonging - that downplays the insidious recruitment t tactics used - it's victim blaming

Yeah I think there’s truth in that. I certainly don’t mean to suggest anyone is asking for it, I probably worded my post badly. I think people who have that mindset are vulnerable to exploitation in this way.

Point totally noted, and apology issued - you’re right.

There are cults in the workplace, friendship groups, voluntary organisations, on Mumsnet, everywhere you find more than one person. Some are more benign than others.

I'm loving the implication that 82% of the population is the cult, not the 18%. Cool story!

I think it is a cult - follow the money trail - then you'll find the psychopaths
using the ideology of Identity to try and explain the complexity of life

I disagree that some go looking for belonging - that downplays the insidious recruitment t tactics used - it's victim blaming

Not a cult per se in that I doubt there’s a central hub.

Definitely cultic behaviour in many of the aspects of it. Mantras, nodebate, mobbing of dissenters.

Having said that you see this kind of behaviour everywhere you look (having once suggested to a devoted baby led weaned that squishing up a bit of carrot was probably totally fine and reaping the whirlwind in response... )

It baffles me how people need these restrictive structures in parenting - I know SO many people who are devotees of ‘methods’ and think that just muddling through and considering what you think is best in your individual circumstances is somehow terribly neglectful.

See also: clean eating etc.

I knew the comment of a mirror would come up.

You might want to read the link about the difference between 'safe' and 'unsafe' groups in reference to that and have a think.

I know a good number of them are true of the MN Feminism boards though.

Any of them in particular, Rat? I'm always up for a bit of self-analysis.

Yes in my opinion, plenty of narcissists and many an echo wasting their lives.

Oh my god, the more posts that appear on this thread the more the irony ramps up.