Is it possible not to agree thatTWAW

"An absence of ethics is exhibited by calling the absence of ethics "controversies" instead of an absence of ethics."

Bet FemWomb doesn't tell me off.

I have enough to cope with trying to keep myself on the right path.

You can often bring a horse to water, you can't always make it drink.

You can talk about a flat earth, transgenderism and so forth as much as you like, if someone doesn't want to believe you can't make them.

Of course it would be a nightmare, but it hasnt happened and will not happen until they start doing brain transplants...and even then they would have to match sex type...As the brain and body are completely inseparable.

Here's why I just don't believe that trans women are women trapped in male bodies. We are often told to imagine how we would feel if we woke up one day in a male body as an exercise to get us to understand what it's like to be a trans woman. Wouldn't it be terrible, thinking that you're a woman but being in the 'wrong' body?

It is a ridiculous thought experiment because it is utter fantasy, but that would be an utter nightmare for me. I would want all surgery and medication possible. I would be deeply miserable looking at my male body.

Is biology transphobic?
For me verifiable reality trumps belief.

I am challenging opinions and behaviours because this is a public message forum and that is what it is designed for.

You are challenging nowt. What you are doing is reciting a mantra, of the Genderists, and saying that because someone had feelings, the whole basis of the laws to protect women should be scrapped.

Which is utterly ridiculous. We are the voice of the 82%. The 82% that say NO.

Not particularly pertinent to the thread but you're clutching at straws trying to say the Sunday Trading Act is indicative of religious oppression.

Couple more shopping hours happily traded for 'the occasional transwoman in the toilets'.

Wow.

Given all the evidence people have given here over the months I've been reading, not about the risk of that minority of transwomen, but the additional risk of breaking down female boundaries to not be able to challenge male-bodied people in toilets and spaces because of 'transphobia'.

And given that we're not just talking about transwomen in toilets, but the very definition of 'women' and 'female' as a consequence.

But of course, we're all girls here- we'd love a bit of extra shopping, hell, go for it! Sounds like a good trade!

oi oi daim!
I down there is anything you would stop at if it had half a chance at driving the women out of the public sphere.

Why was the photo of that woman wearing woman's clothes deleted?

Thats what women see in women's spaces. If people object to a photo how do they expect women to deal with the reality?

its came about from a good friend I had a school who was transgender. She told me she just always knew she was a girl inside a boy's body. It's hard to describe a person's essence - she wasn't particularly girly, liked climbing trees and football, but I just knew that she was a girl despite having male anatomy.

It was really clear to me that being transgender was an innate part of her that she had no control over and I haven't forgotten it.

I said that almost word for word, minus the trans bit aged 19.

I know, I wanted to see the reaction Diam had to the request and it lead on to an interesting conversation for me.

It all goes back to some people not loving women as much as they love themselves, so it all falls apart.

Christ on a bike, this is my new favourite thread.

Bet FemWomb doesn't tell me off. Wonder why?

to be fair, more than one poster used christ as a swear word. from both "sides" (though there is more than two sorts of opinions) many people here do not believe in god/religion.

I dunno Pombear I would quite happily swap the shops being open on Sunday night for the occasional trans woman in the ladies loo.

'I demand more booze.'

Not on a Sunday Withnail, you know ...the sunday trading act...tut tut.

I hear your point about Sunday Trading Act, but I suspect there's a hanging onto the Sunday Trading Act to still enbale people who work in retail to have some semblance of a shorter day, somewhere.

I really don't think that's an equivalent to religious dictacts, though it has its origins in it. Shopping rights is not really an equivalent human right/protection in comparison to single-sex spaces though, is it?

Correct me if I am wrong. I understand it is difficult if not impossible for a society to have a universal objective moral code without the aid of a supernatural element.

If men make rules better, better doesn't mean better for everyone, as shown by your ideology.

I think they are women born with male anatomy.

AKA men.

BertrandRussell I think you sound respectful, I don't consider what you said to be transphobic at all.

I don't think anyone is expecting everyone to believe TWAW - it's about respecting the law which recognises they are.

The difference is that the law doesn't force anyone to go along with someone else's religion.

Of course it does. The Sunday Trading Act for example means shops are only allowed to open for certain hours - this is dictated by religion.

There'll be something else after self ID - they will go for the Equality Act exemptions, and that won't satisfy them either, because they'll still be men. They will always want more because what they want can never be possible.

Pratchet I am afraid I agree... very afraid....

The continual insatiable unsatisfying demands

I cannot but believe that the "old" approach that Miranda and others speak of, of considerable time spent talking and reflecting on what life would be like "living like a woman" and how people would react to you prepared transpeople better for the realities of life and were more likely to result in a happier trans experience, a person more at ease with who and why they are and more able to integrate into society and to not be constantly shrieking what about me, look at me, its all about me...

What people believe is not really very relevant.

What their bodies do and what is done to them is much more relevant. There is political significance in having a body around which society is organised. In this male oriented society one body type’s needs are met by the other body type.

The subservient body type is groomed from before birth, treated as disposable and its needs are not considered. Medical advances are modelled on the dominant body type.

The difference is that the law doesn't force anyone to go along with someone else's religion.

So why should trans be different?

Yes, why?