Is it possible not to agree thatTWAW

I deeply sympathise with transwomen, I do know what it's like to want to be something I know I will never be, I'm sure most of us have been there.

It's possible to have sympathy without reinforcing a false belief, that's rather cruel imo.

Why do we have to lie and say a transwoman is a woman to be inclusive and sympathetic?

A transwoman is man who may present in traditionally female manner and may genuinely feel like what they think a woman feels like. That's perfectly OK.

Why is there a push to say he is a woman?

I'm particularly interested in what you think daim as your pov seems to be different to mine.

I was chatting to a male friend about this recently and he said if he saw a trans man in a male changing room he would try and do everything he could to make the person feel comfortable

Yes, of course he would. Quite right too. (Or at least, not make the TM uncomfortable).

Does your friend know many men who have been physically/sexually abused by women? Is there any female equivalent of AGP?

It's not symmetrical.

I think I sympathise more than most

What makes you think people don't have sympathy or empathy?

I had LOADS - I have known trans people since the 80s.

I have worked with trans people and shock horror - even hugged them and comforted them when upset.

It isn't what we would call 'genuine trans women' that are the issue.

The issue is the violent and disturbing behaviour of Genderists. Who have campaigned to obliterate the word 'women' and to remove safeguards for women and girls to allow anyone to say anything and it be true.

I think I sympathise more than most because it's only a few years since people were spewing bile about gay people being able to marry, adopt, have children etc.

I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of prejudice about something I have no control over.

Iam I was chatting to a male friend about this recently and he said if he saw a trans man in a male changing room he would try and do everything he could to make the person feel comfortable

I don't care if it means I could be considered transphobic. I could choke down everything I know to be true and parrot TRANSWOMEN ARE WOMEN WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY DICKS CAN BE FEMALE AND I CHOSE TO IDENTIFY WITH THE GENDERING THE WORLD DID TO ME BECAUSE OF MY SEX, and then I could find myself transphobic for thinking transwomen don't have periods, or can't get pregnant, or whatever.

If all these little millennials are still performing what they think femininity is in 20/30 years time, I wonder if they'll start pretending to have the menopause? It's all just fucking ridiculous now.

Why is it always “Trans women are women”? Nobody it appears, is trying to claim that trans men are men.
Is that significant? Are men not so keen to accept that some men have vaginas?

And when I say meeting everyone’s needs, only when this is possible. In some cases it will not be possible and transwomen will have to be excluded as happens eg in the nhs as you have spoken about.

I don’t think that all orgs should automatically use the exemptions Bespin.
I think they should have to do a thorough impact assessment in consultation with ALL service users, not just the trans ones. And then use that to work out a way of meeting everyone’s needs.

We know that this is absolutely not happening eg from the Scottish Schools guidance where no impact assessment has been done, to Topshop changing rooms, to the swim England guidelines etc etc the list goes on.

Lemon Jello also I woudl say that that view is not representive of people who actually work in these areas that use those exemptions. lots of TRA are wanting something not knowing the reality of what they are asking for

Lemon Jello I think this is exactly the point organisations do not have to use them and I would hope have considered if they do with the service users that use the service if they have done this and concluded that they are not needed is it not exceptable to think that maybe they are not needed in that instance. the exemptions are not. a. blanket thing but are used on. a. case by case basis people on here often assume they can be used in a blanket way and therefore all organisations should be using them

Vancouver rape relief

It's only women who get lambasted too. I've just seen a gay man writing really horrible things about some prominent TRAs and do you know how much abuse he got? None.

I'm afraid you are transphobic Bertrand. Juno Dawson says so

Sorry, what's VRR?

And of course, even women who haven't up till now had a problem with TW accessing women's services know that the move to self-ID - happening in reality even without change in legislation - is likely to have some profoundly bad consequences.

So would you say Snappity/ Gibberty’s view (of VRR being odious) is not representative Daim?

I believe it was our very own Snappity/ Gibberty who called VRR “odious” for not allowing transwomen to work there.

Yep.

think this type of thing will get a lot more sympathy from the general public and liberal feminists like me if it was male known.

Well one would hope. However, my concern is that it seems to go like this:

The exemptions in the equality act can be used to exclude transwomen.

People such as yourself say they support these being used.

However, they don’t appear to be used much at all.

For example, none of the women’s orgs in Scotland seem to use them.

The conclusion drawn is that the exemptions could be applied but for some reason, aren’t.

Amd the reason they aren’t being applied seems to be that there are ‘no issues with transwomen accessing the service.’

And that’s where the analysis ends.

But women do have issues with transwomen accessing the service.

So either they are not being consulted or they are being ignored.

I'm diving in anyway.

Probably not the open sesame portal you wanted

ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ

Tells the insistence on accusing transgender people of rape culture just makes anyone remotely liberal switch off.

That's why not a single high profile person spoke out on support of the protestors.

People do not speak out in support of anything as they are worried about TRAS violent reactions to anything resembling sanity.

Did you not see the reaction to Alison Moyet rejecting cis?

This is what the 82% are seeing. Violent reactions to perfectly sane situations.

Wha? Am I the only one who thinks that after the initial shock they’d be totally happy to start living life in a male body with all the privilege it entails (assuming in this ridiculous thought experiment nobody else is confused by the fact a woman has just become a man)?

I'd just be happy that my bones were no longer crumbling, my breasts would no longer be sore, my belly wouldn't be in agony so very often, I would have no use for the reuseable pads I bought, I could shave my head and not look weird at work - and mainly I could grow a funky MOUSTACHE. I've always wanted one.

And my hips would be smaller so I could wear lovely long blazers again - and I could just lose weight at the drop of a hat.

Fucking marvellous.

MAKE IT SO.

Where is that portal again? OPEN SESAME.

Tells the insistence on accusing transgender people of rape culture just makes anyone remotely liberal switch off.

That's why not a single high profile person spoke out on support of the protestors.

So you have no issues with the current position on sport and crime reporting?

These are valid points - I do think trans women have an unfair advantage over women in sports and crime reporting should note if an individual is trans.