Is it possible not to agree thatTWAW

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar I don't think it's transphobic. I haven't had a relationship with a black woman, that doesn't make me a racist.

I don't see trans women as having a deformity, I see them with as women born with male anatomy.

I can't grasp the TWAW position; it's obviously a fallacy that male people are women.

However, if it's more "transwomen have every right to live their lives as women and we'll all treat them that way" that seems absolutely reasonable. Why would I tie myself in knots about how people want to live their lives?
It's like gay marriage or abortion - not compulsory for people to have them, but are available to those who need it.

I just can't square the idea of wanting to live as a women and wanting to have the safe spaces of women and girls dismantled. TRA demands scare me.

Aside - I really enjoy the cut and thrust of debate here. Thanks, everyone

I’m not hounding you, this thread is the first I’ve heard of it.
But why are you so insistent that trans women are women; do you see them as women with a deformity, or something?
You’ve admitted that as a lesbian you wouldn’t see a male bodied person as a potential sexual partner - even though you insist they are women pure and simple.
Isn’t that transphobic, as decreed by the thought police?

Don't be disingenuous - you've had it on here only to show you examples of the sort of crap lesbians have to put up with in the twittersphere

But I am on Twitter and I am a lesbian and I never get this crap from trans people. A TRA posting a Twitter update is not personally hounding me.

GC feminists hijacking my thread in Chat when it's not even posted in FWR is deliberately targeting and hounding me.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar I wouldn't describe myself as being seriously on board with lady penis. It's not something I've given any thought seeing as I'm a female married to another female but for some reason I keep getting hounded about it

Ah, daim, what exactly are you about, then?
You’re seriously on board with lady penis, but as a lesbian it’s not for you??

The most fantastic effect of this whole mess is that when you describe yourself as a lesbian, or a gay woman, I have no idea whether you actually have male anatomy or not...
That’s a bit of a head fuck, really.

people were spewing bile about gay people being able to marry, adopt, have children etc

Another false comparison

Transpeople are allowed the rights of people.
No-one wants to take their rights away; even their right to believe whatever it is they want to believe

But TWA not W,

Daim i suspect you were asked about lady penis as there have been lots of examples where lesbians are called transphobes for not liking dick. Cotton ceiling etc.

I am repeatedly hounded on here about my sexuality, I've lost count of the amount of times I've been asked if I want lady penis. Funnily enough I've never had this from a TRA, only posters on here

Don't be disingenuous - you've had it on here only to show you examples of the sort of crap lesbians have to put up with in the twittersphere. No-one here has said you're a bigoted Nazi for who you are and aren't attracted to.

You are seriously asked on here if you want lady penis?

Daim posted in support of Lady Penis; just not for them. So is transphobic whilst also having a pop at other lesbians for being transphobic. In fact calling lesbians that don't want lady penis [word removed by MNHQ that rhymes with small blue people]s.

What legitimate reason would they have for excluding a trans woman? Apart from prejudice?

Maybe they'd like to talk about their night sweats, dry vaginas and osteoporosis? Lesbians would still get those symptoms at menopause so why would they be excluded?

Socialisation and same-sex camaraderie are the legal reasons why men's clubs excluded trans-men - why can't the same work for women's clubs?

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar not on FWR - I started a thread in Chat and it got hijacked from the usual suspects on here

I am a lesbian, ask me anything www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3293128-i-am-a-lesbian-ask-me-anything

I think people express doubt about your claims to be a lesbian daim.

Daim you were hostile to GC feminists and their analysis before any of those items listed above occurred.

In that case, it's all just lip service to the TWAW believers.

quite sad really when you think about it, I'd hate it if I knew people were just humouring me, one minute staunchly declaring "but they are women" and in the next breath "only sometimes though" :(

You are seriously asked on here if you want lady penis?

Red I've been a feminist all my life and would have been with you all the way if that was the extent of the GC Agenda.

The reasons I cannot support GC feminism are:

• I am repeatedly hounded on here about my sexuality, I've lost count of the amount of times I've been asked if I want lady penis. Funnily enough I've never had this from a TRA, only posters on here

• I do not agree that transgender people promote rape culture. I think that is a dangerous allegation

• As a feminist, I object to an image of a trans women in her swim suit being shared on here with the intention of humiliating her. Trans women have my respect and deserve dignity

• I cannot get on board with the inference that TRAs represent all trans people when in actual fact they represent a tiny minority

• The lack of understanding of the GRA and the Equality Act and the fact they are two entirely bits of legislation irritates me

This is going to alienate any liberal feminist in my opinion I doubt it's just me.

I think the penny will drop eventually too. Daim gets it, but doesn't get it.

I think a lot of us have been at that point.

You can be supportive of trans people and be liberal without having to subscribe to all the mantras.

You just have to understand that there are certain situations where its not really in the best interests of anyone for a trans person to be there. Its just about respecting boundaries and understanding you can't barge into women's spaces demanding to be included. Whether it be a knitting club or a hospital ward. Its a social faux pas if nothing else. Key here is mutual respect and understanding.

ADastardlyThing I just represent the general population and the law as it stands now but nice to know you're warning to me. I have a soft spot for a few posters on here as well.

I'm actually warming to daimbars, they have shown themselves to be a transphobe (TWAW but only sometimes and it's fine to exclude them from some women's spaces), so aren't far off from peaking I suspect.

Private groups and activities are not covered by anti-discrimination laws. My crochet group can exclude anyone it wants to on any basis.

Thank you LangCleg - assume I'm not allowed to join? Quite fancy a bit of crochet.

Well if there was a women's only group to talk about pregnancy, miscarriage and periods it would be completely legitimate to exclude a trans woman.

How likely is it that a woman setting up a private crochet group with her pals is going to be confronted by a trans woman demanding to join? Really?

So are transwomen women or not?

I don't think "sometimes" is a good enough answer for some of the TRAs

MsMc - that's disgraceful but not at all surprising.

Refusing to be known as cis is transphobic??
This is what you’re (very poorly) attempting to defend, daimbars.
Shame on you and your constant presence on threads like this for no other purpose but to run interference and stop posters saying how they feel.

Private groups and activities are not covered by anti-discrimination laws. My crochet group can exclude anyone it wants to on any basis.