Is it possible not to agree thatTWAW

The lack of understanding of the GRA and the Equality Act and the fact they are two entirely bits of legislation irritates me

Daim, you and I had a really good conversation about this, do you not remember?

I said that everyone does know they are separate bits of legislation but the issue is that they interact with each other.

We discussed the goady lgbt Lib Dem twitter post about this and I laid out an example (using the nhs) about how they do interact and you agreed.

Was that a complete waste of my time?

Daim, you talk of anti trans rhetoric........do you even realise that you yourself are being anti trans by suggesting that transwomen aren't actually women? (By stating that they are only women sometimes you are saying they aren't really women, which is probably number 1 on the list of 'anti trans things to say')

daimbars
What I don't get is surely it's in the best long term interests of women to accept TWAW?
Accept them now and we might have to share the occasional toilet or crochet club.
Reject them now leading to a fear and humiliation about coming out as trans... and these repressed individuals end up marrying our daughters

Wow we've moved on from women just be nice to it will hurt your children if you dont do it!

No. Transwomen as a group are a subset of men.

As for cant have transwomen & transmen in the same toilets/changing areas...are you suggesting mixed sex is a mistake?

I don't think trans women are women. Nor do I think trans men are men.
I don't see how that is 'anti-trans'. I'm happy to treat trans people as the gender to which they have been re-assigned, or the gender (stereotype?) which they identify with, I just don't believe that they have changed sex.

If that makes me a transphobe then so be it. (and I have been labelled that and a TERF in twitter conversations that I have tried to conduct civilly and open-mindedly, and then been accused of being a sealion?!)

But I am not anti-trans or 'filled with hate'.

As long as they let the men in?

Propose it to your MP then UpstartCrow

• I'm not strongly for or against it but it sounds very expensive and i would much rather see the money go to improving existing facilities for women and girls.

Well there you go assuming the third space can only be for trans people,whereas we have repeatedly said it could be used by anyone who is comfortable with using a unisex space.

BertrandRussell

Man Friday, the Pride Protests, websites dedicated to peak transing, 99% of the threads on FWR - all anti trans rhetoric.

I could link to them all but it would fill the entire thread.

Make the men's mixed sex and keep the women's sex specific! Works for everyone except people who hate women and want to harm them.

UpstartCrow you mean the third space option?

I can't see that working in every situation as it would mean trans women sharing the space with trans men - which wouldn't work if the aim is for sex segregation, but I agree the more gender neutral facilities available the better.

It's also such a tiny proportion of the population it affects it isn't worth the investment IMO.

Case by case basis seems much simpler.

Perhaps that's because anything that doesn't 110% support trans ideology seems anti to the people who support it.

For example there's nothing to stop trans people being in happy relationships with each other, is there?

I dunno Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar I considered marrying a man I wasn't in love with because society rejected my sexuality. Being trans is a lot less socially acceptable than being gay. There's some pretty forceful anti-trans rhetoric around at the moment.

Are those the only 2 options?

No, a phenomenon is just a 'thing'. I can accept the phenomenon of having gender dysphoria, but that doesn't mean TWAW.

End up marrying our daughters?? You don’t really think rejecting the notion that they are actual women will have them all climbing back in the closet, do you?!
No. Of course you bloody don’t.
So stop it.

What I don't get is surely it's in the best long term interests of women to accept TWAW?

Accept them now and we might have to share the occasional toilet or crochet club.

Reject them now leading to a fear and humiliation about coming out as trans... and these repressed individuals end up marrying our daughters.

I see them with as women but only when it suits me born with male anatomy.

You missed a few words out there daim, fixed for you.

And you can't opt out of the debate by saying 'Oh I'm married I dont look at anyone as a potential sexual partner anymore'.

daimbars
I find that difficult because the law (GRA) legally recognises them as women so you are effectively breaking the law.

With our thoughts?!? Is there special thought police or do the regular officers have to add this to their job description?

But I am on Twitter and I am a lesbian and I never get this crap from trans people.

But lots do...

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar it wouldn't be my place to describe another person's genitals as a deformity but I know that's how my trans friend at school felt about hers.

If you don’t see a woman with a penis (and it’s you who insist they’re women) as a potential sexual partner then you consider the penis to be a deformity.

But it’s the demand to be in women’s spaces that propelled the whole thing into the public consciousness, isn’t it?
Most people couldn’t give a toss how other people go about their business on a daily basis or what their beliefs are.
Most people hadn’t given a thought to people living as the opposite sex until that wasn’t enough for them - they had to have it publicly acknowledged and enshrined in law that they don’t just live as women, they are women.
Hardly anyone bloody cared until this.