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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

#notalltranswomen

353 replies

BadasIwannaB · 12/07/2018 14:14

An argument people often make when women voice their concerns about women only spaces:

‘Well hang on a second, I know quite a few trans women and they are just considerate nice people who just want to get on with their lives etc.’

Why can’t people see that this is spectacularly missing the point in just the same way as arguing ‘well NOT ALL MEN are [rapists/sexual harassers/misogynists/a danger to women]’?

I mean, I’m friends with a lot of men - they aren’t all bad. I’m even in an intimate relationship with one. But would that be a legit rebuttal to the arguments that women should have protected spaces without men? Clearly not! I’m not insulting my (or your) friends who are men, or implying men are all rapists etc. by agreeing that women should have protected spaces without men in them.

Similarly, then, why think that those who argue that these protected spaces should not be available to trans women must be assuming that all trans women are rapists/sexual harrassers etc., and must be saying something that’s terribly insulting to their (or your) friends who are trans women?

OP posts:
Pratchet · 13/07/2018 05:07

Yes now is our chance. Lets not blow it by concentrating our efforts on discrediting gender. Lets focus our efforts on making sure sex is secure

Interesting. It looks like feminists' accurate descriptions of gender as stereotypes are having an impact. People are starting to understand that 'gender identity' is merely a preference for the stereotypes of one sex over the other.

We should press on with showing up 'gender' for what it is.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 13/07/2018 05:05

If I'm wrong there'd be no need to desperately project mantras on buildings.

Pratchet · 13/07/2018 05:03

What's with the continual ha ha tho

thebewilderness · 13/07/2018 05:03

GardenGeek
I was referring to your forced teaming.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 13/07/2018 05:02

They haven't won, and stop saying 'identify with'. It's meaningless.

Agreed. It suggests taking the logically irreconcilable 'Interactionist' position of the mind/body problem.

GardenGeek · 13/07/2018 05:00

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WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 13/07/2018 04:59

You can, but it means there less likely to listen to you.

I disagree. Sane people listen.

GardenGeek · 13/07/2018 04:56

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thebewilderness · 13/07/2018 04:55

May I respectfully suggest that you do you, GardenGeek, and not presume to tell me how I should do me?

GardenGeek · 13/07/2018 04:55

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WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 13/07/2018 04:54

We make sex secure and we clarify that gender is subjective.

GardenGeek · 13/07/2018 04:53

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Pratchet · 13/07/2018 04:52

They haven't won, and stop saying 'identify with'. It's meaningless.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 13/07/2018 04:51

The EA uses sex and gender reassignment to mean different things. The GRA is the one that fudges sex and gender and there is a consultation open now to update it. Now is the opportunity to clarify the important distinction between the sexed body (material reality) and the 'gender identity (personal belief) in law.

GardenGeek · 13/07/2018 04:49

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NewbieSpartacus · 13/07/2018 04:47

For my money, you are all spending too much time trying to get sense out of Snappity, who has demonstrated in this, and other threads, a total disrespect for women. I'm too lazy and too angry to deal with it. But thank you, those warriors who are plugging away every day - the lurkers will be reading and learning (and seeing Snappity for the TRA they are).

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 13/07/2018 04:46

I find it acceptable to say that 'gender identity' is a legitimate belief. But I draw the line at saying it tells us something about material reality.

thebewilderness · 13/07/2018 04:45

As it is currently being used by genderists, I mean.

GardenGeek · 13/07/2018 04:45

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thebewilderness · 13/07/2018 04:45

Gender is rather obviously a euphemism for personality.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 13/07/2018 04:43

I think campaigning to say sex is a social construct is an own goal. Only lunatics on the far side of Loonyville would ever think something other than "fuck off and don't be ridiculous" when confronted with it.

GardenGeek · 13/07/2018 04:43

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GardenGeek · 13/07/2018 04:40

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WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 13/07/2018 04:40

I prefer the tactic of insisting people clarify what they mean when they say 'gender'. If they mean 'sex' I can say "then use the word sex".

GardenGeek · 13/07/2018 04:38

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