Abortion - "its days are numbered"

What are you referring to racecardriver? The 1967 Act allows abortion with permission of 2 Drs. What are you referring to when you talk about exercising a loophole?

I am firmly pro choice but have no issue with JRM holding his views, any more than I have an issue with MIL holding them. He's been very clear that he would not seek to change the laws in the U.K.

A number of states in the US have effectively removed abortion as an option for women by closing all clinics and refusing to fund health care for women. They have also passed "heartbeat laws" that outlaw abortion at 20 weeks, just when the tests are done for anomalies.
Roe is more than a right to abortion. It is the only Constitutional decision that provides women a rights to privacy. The ERA was never ratified so technically women's rights are not addressed in the Constitution.

Sorry meant to say- . There are exceptions permitted to the UK mainland 24 week limit. Ireland allowed a woman to die but UK law would not and does not enforce what you are suggesting.

I don’t mind JRM having those views on abortion, they are his personal views - I’d only mind if he campaigned to change the laws to make it harder to access or to ban it.

The UK is splitting from the EU, losing human rights legislation

Yes we are leaving the EU but that has no impact on the European convention of human rights. It is 2 entirely separate things.

I also don't agree abortion rights are at risk in the UK there is no real chance it would get through parliament

If a baby may have a life long debilitating condition imagine saying to that women sorry you have to go through the rest of the pregnancy and birth (even if it will kill you also) as one baby out of 1000s survived before 24 weeks so the law was changed. It is barbaric

This is just scare mongering too. There are exceptions permitted to the UK mainland 24 week limit. Ireland allowed a woman to die because UK law would not and does not enforce what you are suggesting.

I also don't believe leaving the EU affects abortion rights in the UK.The 1967 Act pre-dated the Common Market

The 24 week UK limit is one of the longest (possibly the longest?) in the EU.

I don't think abortion is under threat from RM - he's made his Catholic views very clear but equally has said he would think it wrong to impose those views on others.

I know, I know, his voting record. IMO these votes were made to appease his Catholic conscience safe in the knowledge that there was no actual chance of a change in legislation. See also: gay marriage.

I think that in the outside chance he were to be in a position of power, he could actually serve as a really interesting example of tolerance. Something the left needs to learn asap.

Whatever your political leanings, he is clearly a bright man. He knows that access to abortion is essential to the well being of our society.

Although I do think that as the political right rises there will be much more anti abortion discourse. This is not necessarily bad. It's a serious topic and discussion is good.

I do not believe at all that access to abortion is under threat.

The UK I think won’t change the law. It’s based on sound medical data and very few politicians have extreme pro life views.

There are VERY few late term abortions by the way - the ones that are tend to be very much wanted babies that have a catastrophic condition or are endangering the health/life of the mother. It’s a Fraction of a percent as far as I remember.

The USA is a different ball game. DH actually brought the Roe vs Wade challenge to my attention yesterday in one of his rants about the erosion of democracy and the bias of the Supreme Court election procedure :) (he also stated that men shouldn’t even be voicing an opinion on abortion, it’s a female issue.)
The Supreme Court member sit for life, and although they should be impartial, they’re obviously put forward for the posts in a partial way by whichever lotcare in power. So there’s a huge potential bias there.
Women’s rights in the USA are under grave threat. I really fear and feel for them :(

Also agree entirely with the posters who say that brexit will trigger a reduction in rights and an opening of the NHS to US companies.

Very worrying.

The problem with the UK is that abortion (with the exception of medical necessitated terminations) is not legal. It is simply not prosecuted. Jacob Rees Nigg is neither here nor there. The prime minister can't singlehandedly end accessible abortion practices and he isn't going to be able to find enough anti abortion mps to enforce the current legislation let alone repeal it with an outright ban. The law needs to be reformed still. It only works because doctors are willing to abuse a loop hole to perform at will abortions. This isn't good enough. At will abortions need to be legalised with clear restrictions on who/where/how they can be performed and under what circumstances doctors can refuse an at will abortion/limitation period on at will abortions.

Abortion is not at risk in the UK.

The Tories are not abolishing the NHS.

There is a serious issue here re the US but the level of scare mongering on this thread is ridiculous.

There are plenty of states here in the US where abortion is so far out of reach for most women it may as well be illegal. A dozen or so states also have laws reverting back to pre-Roe bans should Roe be overturned. Those laws were enacted shortly after the decision came down in the 70s. The Republicans and their allies have been rolling back Roe from the beginning, if anyone here believed abortion was legislatively safe they weren't paying attention. Add to that the slow take over of US hospitals by the Catholic church and situation has been pretty grim here for as long as I can remember which would be the mid-90s.

The muderous "pro-lifers" here don't just shot doctor's in/outside of their clinics, they shoot them in their churches too.

I hope pps are right and that abortion is legislatively safe in the UK.

Rufus, as my girls say, it's chill. I just know that I'm on a feminist board, and I'm not here to evangelize for my point of view - but I do want to have that point of view stated clearly so there's no confusion. This debate generates so much heat and emotion (completely understandably) I am always keen not to misrepresent anyone, given that it's a life or death issue for many on both sides of the topic.

Oh sorry floral

I honestly meant that i think you have the same outlook as my mum

I hope I haven't expressed myself so badly that you think i was having a pop

apologies if it came over that way

As a woman who has had two abortions myself, judgement is very far from my thinking on the matter. I'm not a crazy chanter, and I don't think graphic placards do any good at all, and fairly obviously, as someone who believes all killing is wrong, from the death penalty to euthanasia and abortion, I don't agree with murdering abortion doctors.
I don't demonise women who have made a legal choice, either. But I do disagree with abortion in almost all circumstances except the relatively rare situations where the life of the mother is in peril, and that is very much a difficult medical issue - ectopics and so forth.
I believe in being able to make my case in this regard, in a free society. But I am very aware of the reality of the situation that my views are in a very small minority, especially in the UK.

In the case of a blanket ban, what do they propose in the case of ectopic pregnancy? Life or death situation for the mother and the embryo can't survive either way.

prawn

for your SIL

Its difficult floral

But my mum would probably have been the same

But she would never ever do anything to hinder that woman or judge her so i think I struggle more with people outside of clinics or campaigning for this sort of thing

Not arguing for or against changing anything. Just pointing out that any change would require a democratic vote through parliament, (and the House of lords?) considerable public support and evidence to back it up. Leaving the EU, etc etc doesn't change that, we're not a dictatorship or the US. There's no support amongst the public or in government for removing abortion access.

Exactly.

Rufus, it's probably my biggest struggle tbh. I am wholly committed to women's rights. But I truly believe there is an intractable conflict between the two positions that I have to come down on erring on the side of life. Which is why I don't call myself a feminist because I understand that this is such an important issue in feminist thought.

I don't think abortion is at risk. The UK is not America. It's a political hot potato there, whereas most British people don't see abortion as controversial. Neither do most MPs.

It would take a complete change of tack to get a law passed and I don't believe there's any appetite for a change. All the medical experts say the 24 week limit is there for good reasons, and they can easily - and heartbreakingly- illustrate what those reasons are

My SIL had an abortion just before the deadline, after discovering the foetus had a chromosomal abnormality. Had he survived birth he would have died in the first couple of years. My SIL and DB are both very religious and it was a terrible decision to make.

My brother was told that if his DW didn't have his support to end the pregnancy, her MH might never recover. Then their priest said it was OK when a foetus was so severely affected. My DB caved, though I know he still feels they made the wrong decision and SIL should have taken the pregnancy to term and accepted God's will going forward. Yet he's not the one who's a Catholic. Weird.

I find it hard to imagine my loving, ever kindly little DB trying to stop my SIL from having an abortion. Painful. But then he's always been a black and white sort of person.

floral lapsed Catholic here

I have never been against abortion but until i was older did have some caveats

But i think what's happening in America is horrific

I really dont under stand how rights can be rolled back in this way, it makes me obviously concerned for women's rights over there but also gay rights, trans rights etc...just dreadful

Halebeke425 entirely my point, yes. I understand the nervousness among feminists on the issue, because of the pull and influence of other undoubtedly anti-woman things, but I just don't think anti-abortion campaigning in this country has anything more than totemic power.

Thanks for the info LangCleg

Not arguing for or against changing anything. Just pointing out that any change would require a democratic vote through parliament, (and the House of lords?) considerable public support and evidence to back it up. Leaving the EU, etc etc doesn't change that, we're not a dictatorship or the US. There's no support amongst the public or in government for removing abortion access.

I think she's harder line than she would admit to in parliament to be honest. She was in cahoots with a load of far right religious US groups when she brought about her amendment in parliament - you know the sort - go around chanting outside abortion clinics and shooting doctors outside their surgeries.

She was anecdotally reported as saying she wants to chip away at abortion rights piece by piece until it was outlawed - but I don't know how true that actually is.