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Original poster

What can teachers and other professionals do to create a more gender free environment in our schools?

287 replies

SarahCarer · 11/07/2018 23:11

As my dd is autistic and, as a result, Gender non Conforming (GNC) I thought I would share some thoughts about how to de-gender our schools.

Firstly, teachers need to find a way to address groups of children without saying "girls" or "boys" . This is commonplace in some schools and puts an unnatural focus onto a person's sex which is of no relevance at all in the context.

Secondly every school should have at least one unisex toilet which any pupil can use without special permission.

Thirdly school staff should avoid using the terms "good girl" or "good boy" Again the sex is of no relevance and the statement risks implying that they are being good because they are behaving in a way consistent with femininity or masculinity.

Fourthly ALL sexism and homophobia should be robustly challenged

Fifthly sex ed should not have gendered content

Sixthly there should be no organising of classes with reference to sex except in PE or for sex ed.

Any thoughts on these suggestions or suggestions for others?

These are some of the ways we can protect our autistic children from gender dysphoria (GD)

OP posts:
Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 22:06

Yes indeed that's right. It was shorthand. Obviously I don't think certain types of clothes and hairstyles belong to boys or girls. But when someone selects from the option marked "for boys" when their sex is female they are not conforming to gendered expectations i.e. they are gender non conforming. I don't feel confused. Does this clarify?

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Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 22:04

I'm listening...

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SuburbanRhonda · 12/07/2018 22:03

The raised eyebrow was because you are using gender stereotypes yourself by describing her hair by saying she dresses like a boy and has hair like a boy. Surely if she is a girl, that means she dresses like a girl and has hair like a girl.

ADastardlyThing · 12/07/2018 22:02

Dresses like a boy and has hair like a boy?

You seem very confused in your views.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 22:02

This means she doesn't conform to the gendered expectations that relate to her sex. I am describing something and something which is very common among autistic girls.

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Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 22:00

Why the raised eyebrow Suburban?

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Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 22:00

Sorry meant to say "I would have been delighted with the folksy approach but many kids feel alienated by it because it doesn't reflect their feelings about it"

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SuburbanRhonda · 12/07/2018 21:59

She dresses like a boy, has hair like a boy

Hmm
SuburbanRhonda · 12/07/2018 21:57

I don’t really understand what you mean by “de-gendering”, OP.

Wouldn’t it be better if you just addressed any issues at school that you feel reinforce gender stereotypes, rather than talking about “de-gendering”, as I doubt anyone in school will understand what you mean by this.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 21:56

@ADastardlyThing Being gender non conforming in no way changes a person's sex and there is no implication that it would. Not all GNC people use they/them and my dd doesn't even know she is GNC. It isn't a choice she has put on like an identity. She dresses like a boy, has hair like a boy and never describes herself as a girl or female unless describing her biology.

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Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 21:51

Wow. Loads of really interesting suggestions here, some fantastic examples of good practice and some really thought provoking comments. I'll explain about autism and gender for those who haven't read my words about this before.

There is a very high coincidence of autism and gender dysphoria (GD). Autistic girls are under diagnosed. There have been very high numbers of teenage girls being diagnosed with GD (a 2000% increase). Many feminism chat regulars (including me) believe that it is not right to start children on a pathway to hormonal and surgical treatment because they cannot really change sex and the cause of their suffering is gendered expectations and stereotyping combined with the trans narrative about boy brains in girls bodies and vice versa. By de-gendering their worlds we can help and protect these young people. De-gendering our language and reflecting on our choices costs nothing and takes no time. Teachers I'm not asking you to add anything to your workload - It's not one of your banned 'admin' tasks for heaven sakes! You're in loco parenthesis and could make a big difference. And to those who are saying "nope sexism never happens in my school" well that's great. It certainly happens in a lot of schools.

I accept that schools don't exist in vacuums and as a result sometimes things need to be different for the different sexes. I think of sex ed as an example of that where depending on their maturity levels they may need their dignity protecting by having these lessons separately. There are plenty of other examples too but only where necessary for dignity or equality is what I'm suggesting.

An example of gendered content in a sex ed lesson is a folksy rite of passage type approach to teaching about menstruation instead of keeping factual. I would have been delighted with the folksy approach.

I believe de-gendering helps most children. I'm not ashamed of my biology and no one should be but I won't collude in the idea that I was, for example, born to be gentle and empathetic on account of being a woman.

OP posts:
ADastardlyThing · 12/07/2018 20:00

Ridiculous.

They are girls and boys. Being GNC doesn't change that.

It's a nod towards "what's your pronoun" to me, which is also fucking ridiculous.

SleepingStandingUp · 12/07/2018 19:48

Fifthly sex ed should not have gendered content
Sixthly there should be no organising of classes with reference to sex except for sex ed

Whilst I agree young people need to know all of it, why can't have it together if they're not allowed to think of themselves as gendered for the rest of the day pr why would you not have different information if we accept that their are differences?

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2018 19:32

Meh, I use boys and girls. If there’s a large group of boys hanging around in the corridor I will say ‘come on boys, get to your next lesson’.

Girls and boys tend to hang around in single sex groups, so this happens quite a lot.

WatcherintheRye · 12/07/2018 19:14

As far as 'good boy/girl' is concerned, it's the 'good' that I object to rather than the entirely accurate 'boy' or 'girl'. 'Good' is such a controlling, patronising concept, when used to categorise a person. Good by whose judgement? Good because they've done what they were told to do, or what society expects them to do, whether male or female?

ProfessorMoody · 12/07/2018 19:11

I'd never use guys/boys/girls unless it's a group of single sex children. Not really even then.

I use folks a lot, or Year *, and they have group table names, which are also used.

Owlettele · 12/07/2018 19:04

@campion it is easy to address collective pupils by yeah group/house name/class name/school name. Not difficult. I have never used guys or boys and girls or children .

Owlettele · 12/07/2018 19:02

I have seen it and agree there needs to be something done to end the stereotypes and pay gap etc. However, it is not for overworked teachers to solve. I am not denying there are things that can be done on the classroom but often you fight a losing battle as they go home and hear different messages. See different messages in the media. There needs to be a global shift. Teachers and schools no matter how inclusive and neutral can not begin to make a dent on the issue in isolation.

SuburbanRhonda · 12/07/2018 18:58

I hate the use of “guys” for a group of children.

Thankfully at primary we can get away with calling them “children”. It seems to work ok Smile

StepBackNow · 12/07/2018 18:03

Teaching's hard enough without making it even harder. If I was still teaching this could be the sort of thing that would make me quit, frankly.

Our job is to teach DCs to read, write and add up.

Racecardriver · 12/07/2018 17:50

Why Confused

campion · 12/07/2018 17:38

How do you (collectively) address girls in an all girls' school? In my experience they call each other 'guys' and don't seem to have a problem with that,though I don't think they would even connect it with maleness.
I gave heard members of staff saying 'you guys' which makes me cringe but I may be in the miNorty.

Atthebottomofthesea · 12/07/2018 17:37

Ekpharasis My ds struggled with the concept of 'everyone' because he didn't realise it included him. So they had to say more along the lines of 'can everyone do x like/with Fred'

Ekphrasis · 12/07/2018 17:21

@Owlettele "why should this fall on teachers...?"

If you watch the BBC's great 2 part documentary "no more boys and girls" it shows how much of an impact teachers have on pupils and their stereotypical attitudes.

Ekphrasis · 12/07/2018 17:18

Why is your child's gender non conforming as a result of having autism? Seems a very odd thing to say. They aren't related.

It's very common.

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