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Original poster

What can teachers and other professionals do to create a more gender free environment in our schools?

287 replies

SarahCarer · 11/07/2018 23:11

As my dd is autistic and, as a result, Gender non Conforming (GNC) I thought I would share some thoughts about how to de-gender our schools.

Firstly, teachers need to find a way to address groups of children without saying "girls" or "boys" . This is commonplace in some schools and puts an unnatural focus onto a person's sex which is of no relevance at all in the context.

Secondly every school should have at least one unisex toilet which any pupil can use without special permission.

Thirdly school staff should avoid using the terms "good girl" or "good boy" Again the sex is of no relevance and the statement risks implying that they are being good because they are behaving in a way consistent with femininity or masculinity.

Fourthly ALL sexism and homophobia should be robustly challenged

Fifthly sex ed should not have gendered content

Sixthly there should be no organising of classes with reference to sex except in PE or for sex ed.

Any thoughts on these suggestions or suggestions for others?

These are some of the ways we can protect our autistic children from gender dysphoria (GD)

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Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 06:31

And it is my belief that de-gendering helps everyone. In the same way the DDA was, in that case, a high cost to help a small group and yet actually makes a positive difference to virtually everyone.

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Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 06:27

Care enough not car enough!

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Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 06:27

You misunder stand @Coyoacan. No one wants to make a law about it. And many people here do want to smash the gender binary. My suggestions are for people who car enough to make a few small adjustments which mostly cost nothing. You can feel free to take them or leave them.

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Coyoacan · 14/07/2018 05:21

I'm totally against gender stereotypes but, much as I believe that everyone should be supported by society, organising our language and society around the interests of one particular and small interest group, be they transgenders or people with autism, would be a big mistake.

Extreme cases make bad law.

qumquat · 13/07/2018 23:54

I teach in a girls' school and call the girls girls. I don't have a problem with that. It doesn't mean I think they should be conforming to stereotypes. A lot of teachers use ladies. I'm in two minds about that as I hate it applied to me but the girls generally respond well to it as it feel like an 'upgrade'. Similarly when I worked in a boys school 'gentlemen' was used a lot.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 13/07/2018 23:31

I didn't just randomly reach the conclusion that gender non conformity and autism are connected because of my dd! Feel free to Google it. The two very commonly co-occur. Not all autistic people. Not all GNC people. I am happy my dd is GNC. School didnt cause it for heavens sakes! But teachers and staff working in schools can help and, believe it or not, many want to.

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SuburbanRhonda · 13/07/2018 22:06

School uniforms have an awful lot to answer for in these distressing gender wars...

If you think school uniforms are responsible for the current rise in genderism, you are deluded.

MitchDash · 13/07/2018 20:43

One of my sons has autism. One does not. One is gay. Neither of them buy clothes from the mens section of shops, even shoes, and one will wear high heels occassionally. They both will wear nail varnish and one will wear full face makeup when going out if he wants to, even though he has a full beard. They are both Gender Non Conforming but NOT because one has autism. Mostly because they had a highly patriarchal abusive father and wish to distance themselves from everything he ever stood for. School had nothing to do with it.

I am very proud of them.

Ihuntmonsters · 13/07/2018 20:05

My children go (actually went now as dd has just finished) to a non uniform school system. At primary dd was very unusual in wearing skirts/dresses, everyone else wore jeans, shorts or leggings. She was also unusual in having short hair. Her school allowed any hair style but virtually all the girls had long hair with a few having bob styles, where dd had a pixie cut. A fair few of the boys had longer hair than her (surfer style was popular). A few boys had mohicans and other interesting styles went unquestioned. Girls more likely to dye their hair than boys, but not exclusively so. ds got a few digs for wearing brony t-shirts (he chose deliberately 'girls' colours) at secondary but as I think he quite encouraged them so as to have an excuse for an argument I'm not sure that it was really an issue.

achoocashew · 13/07/2018 17:36

What is a boys haircut and a girls haircut? You are persisting in gendering haircuts!!!

Mistressiggi · 13/07/2018 15:40

You should see how much more gender segregated their clothing is on no-uniform days then.

user1499173618 · 13/07/2018 08:18

A skirts-only for girls rule at school is so unbelievably reactionary in the country I live in that it only arises in schools associated with religious fundamentalism.

School uniforms have an awful lot to answer for in these distressing gender wars...

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2018 23:52

Because of the constant reminder that they are being categorised.

I teach teenagers. Today I had to pick up a boy on referring to a girl as a ‘bird’. I then told the girl that she shouldn’t let him speak about her like that. (‘I know, innit’ she said).

I agree you sound very primary-focused. Once puberty kicks in, a teacher calling a group of boys ‘boys’ isn’t going to be a major factor in reminding them of their sex.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 23:22

"Sadly the secondary school most of them transfer to has a skirts-only rule for girls. Some of our girls have never worn skirts to school and are not looking forward to it." You gave this example yourself @suburban so I'm not sure why you're accusing me of projecting sexism from my own kids schools onto others.

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SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 23:18

Because of the constant reminder that they are being categorised. Small children in particular are prompted to identify with others of their sex by the awareness that others are categorizing them in that way and that is a key part of how gender stereotyping develops.

Mistressiggi yes quite possibly

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Mistressiggi · 12/07/2018 23:09

Is there a difference depending on whether you're teaching pre or post pubescent young people? Teenagers are so far down the road of gender stereotyping I think I'm better challenging it explicitly rather than trying to speak as if it doesn't exist and tie myself in knots to never say "you're done really well girls"etc. And not using sex - there is a definite advantage in mixing things up in terms of things like group work and seating plans - a group of four boys, or four girls, or two girls and two boys simply do work together differently and one of the reasons why is their sex. I'd be mad to ignore it entirely in the classroom.

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2018 22:57

I think it would be preferable not to where biological sex is irrelevant

But why? Why, if a group of boys are hanging around should I avoid staying ‘come on boys, get to class’? I understand that you think it’s irrelevant, but I’m not sure why you think it is a problem.

SuburbanRhonda · 12/07/2018 22:54

Suburban in what way was my explanation unclear? Did you feel you had a gotcha and didn't like the thought I might have wiggled out of It? Is this all political correctness gone mad for you? Fine. I won't persuade everyone.

None of the above.

SuburbanRhonda · 12/07/2018 22:45

Has it occurred to you that maybe your own personal experience of your child’s school may not be representative of the other thousands of schools in the country?

And you still haven’t explained what you mean by “de-gendering”.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 22:43

Suburban in what way was my explanation unclear? Did you feel you had a gotcha and didn't like the thought I might have wiggled out of It? Is this all political correctness gone mad for you? Fine. I won't persuade everyone

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Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 22:41

Examples have already been given upthread suburban. I would add seating children boy girl boy girl, defaulting to running competitions as boys against girls. I could give quite a lot of examples from my own kids schools but I don't want to put myself. What is it you object to about this?

Noble - I think it would be preferable not to where biological sex is irrelevant e.g. when addressing a group of children. One teacher has presented some good alternatives upthread.

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SuburbanRhonda · 12/07/2018 22:25

I’m afraid your explanation about why you used gender stereotypes is no clearer after that explanation, I’m afraid.

But moving on, can you give examples of what you mean by “constantly categorising children by sex” in schools?

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2018 22:23

Do you think it is problematic to refer to a group of girls as girls?

Original poster
SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 22:13

I don't expect everyone to agree with me obviously. But some people have shared some really encouraging stuff and useful ideas on here so I'm glad I brought it up. To those teachers who are working to de-gender their classrooms thank you!

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SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 22:09

I think I'm going beyond asking people not to use stereotypes though suburban. I'm suggesting that we don't constantly categorise children according to their sex for no reason. It is bewildering to autistic children and unhelpful I think for all children.

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