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Original poster

What can teachers and other professionals do to create a more gender free environment in our schools?

287 replies

SarahCarer · 11/07/2018 23:11

As my dd is autistic and, as a result, Gender non Conforming (GNC) I thought I would share some thoughts about how to de-gender our schools.

Firstly, teachers need to find a way to address groups of children without saying "girls" or "boys" . This is commonplace in some schools and puts an unnatural focus onto a person's sex which is of no relevance at all in the context.

Secondly every school should have at least one unisex toilet which any pupil can use without special permission.

Thirdly school staff should avoid using the terms "good girl" or "good boy" Again the sex is of no relevance and the statement risks implying that they are being good because they are behaving in a way consistent with femininity or masculinity.

Fourthly ALL sexism and homophobia should be robustly challenged

Fifthly sex ed should not have gendered content

Sixthly there should be no organising of classes with reference to sex except in PE or for sex ed.

Any thoughts on these suggestions or suggestions for others?

These are some of the ways we can protect our autistic children from gender dysphoria (GD)

OP posts:
CaptainKirkssparetupee · 14/07/2018 23:09

As my dd is autistic and, as a result, Gender non Conforming (GNC)
It has nothing to do with autism.

Fifthly sex ed should not have GENDERED content

You've not explained this at all
Sixthly there should be no ORGANISING OF CLASSES ACCORDING TO SEX to sex EXCEPT in PE OR FOR SEX ED

This doesn't happen

And school already stamp out sexism and homophobia.

Gileswithachainsaw · 14/07/2018 23:09

But unisex loos have increased the incidents of voyeurism.

Why do we need them. What could possibly trump keeping the kids safe

Gileswithachainsaw · 14/07/2018 23:08

But these behaviours won't change. Not unless we are allowed to look at the group's and say "yes actually I'm having to-do this because everyone's assumed two girls together will spend the lesson chatting. And I need these well behaved girls to break up the disruptive boys.

If we can't define these kids we can't get to the bottom of the problems.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 23:06

I have been consistent throughout.

As my dd is autistic and, as a result, Gender non Conforming (GNC) I thought I would share some thoughts about how to de-gender our schools.

Firstly, teachers need to find a way to ADDRESS groups of children without saying "girls" or "boys" . This is commonplace in some schools and puts an unnatural focus onto a person's SEX which is of no relevance at all in the context.

Secondly every school should have at least ONE unisex toilet which any pupil can use without special permission.

Thirdly school staff should avoid using the terms "good girl" or "good boy" Again the SEX is of no relevance and the statement risks implying that they are being good because they are behaving in a way consistent with femininity or masculinity.

Fourthly ALL sexism and homophobia should be robustly challenged

Fifthly sex ed should not have GENDERED content

Sixthly there should be no ORGANISING OF CLASSES ACCORDING TO SEX to sex EXCEPT in PE OR FOR SEX ED

These are some of the ways we can protect our autistic children from gender dysphoria (GD)

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 14/07/2018 23:06

But there are loads of girls with short hair who successfully manage to use girls toilets.

How do you think you will challenge gender stereotyping by saying ‘my DD has short hair so she can’t use the girls toilets’? Surely that’s just reinforcing it? She has short hair so she can’t use the girls toilets because girls have to have long hair?

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 14/07/2018 23:01

You don't want them mixed in groups by sex, or mixed equally around the room

What do you want?

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 14/07/2018 23:00

The reason why boys and girls are interleaved in this way
Is to mix the children equally.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 23:00

Noble I've already answered that question up thread.

OP posts:
Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 22:59

"Yes boy or girl, because they are boy or girl...you keep bring sex into it." That's incorrect though isn't it. The reason why boys and girls are interleaved in this way has to do with their typical social behaviours, which is gender, not sex.

OP posts:
CaptainKirkssparetupee · 14/07/2018 22:58

I'm starting you think you started off trying to promote a gender neutral world, but as the thread has not been in favour you and have slowly changed to "from the start I only wanted to stop stereotyping".

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 14/07/2018 22:56

You are continually confusing stereotypes, sex and gender constructs.
You can't have a world where people are non gendered, it's impossible as it means pretending sex isn't a thing.

You can have one where there is no stereotyping, because that's a social construct.

noblegiraffe · 14/07/2018 22:55

If your DD accepts her female biology, then why would she need a unisex toilet?

Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 22:53

"The problem lies with wider society, not schools." Wow. I am so relieved. No sexism in schools. Phew! Must be such a haven for all children.

And for the gazillionth time on this thread, I am not trying to do away with single sex toilets and never suggested I did! Many schools have at least one private unisex toilet that pupils can use if they feel they need to. But not my dd's school.

OP posts:
CaptainKirkssparetupee · 14/07/2018 22:51

sit yourselves boy girl boy girl" is reminding children that they are socially placed into two categories
Yes boy or girl, because they are boy or girl.
You keep bringing sex into it, then outright denying you're doing it.

noblegiraffe · 14/07/2018 22:50

Have you seen the threads on here ‘can men and women be friends, or does sex always come into it?’

There may be more to it than gender stereotyping...

Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 22:47

"If you want teachers to stop doing it, you have to come up with a better reason than ‘I’d rather you didn’t’." Yes fair point. Well it's the categorisation again ("sit yourselves boy girl boy girl" is reminding children that they are socially placed into two categories) but actually you can get away from that to a certain extent by not being explicit per mistressiggi's suggestion, which, again, is a fair point.

"Many seem to have a strong urge to put themselves into sex based groups
Why do you think this is?"

At least in part I think it is because from their first day at school they have been continually reminded that they are socially categorised according to their sex, but I also concede it starts earlier and that, in neurotypical children, there is often an early urge to adopt stereotypical gender traits

OP posts:
VinoBlancoPorFavor · 14/07/2018 22:42

🙄

I’m a teacher, I value every child’s happiness, progress and opportunities equally.

Sexism is treated in the same way as homophobia and racism- ie not tolerated.

Maths word problems have Barry dividing bunches of flowers between friends and Mandy the mechanic multiplying number of tyres per car in her garage.

The problem lies with wider society, not schools.

FYI: I would never use a unisex bathroom and think this is a RIDICULOUS suggestion esp in high schools.

Please don’t go into politics OP.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 14/07/2018 22:38

I know my name, but people call me it.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 14/07/2018 22:37

She knows she is a girl and is not ashamed of it.
But she was distressed by and and being called a girl???

noblegiraffe · 14/07/2018 22:34

Many seem to have a strong urge to put themselves into sex based groups

Why do you think this is?

noblegiraffe · 14/07/2018 22:33

Many seem to have a strong urge to put themselves into sex based groups

But you also object to mixing up the sexes with seating plans.

If you want teachers to stop doing it, you have to come up with a better reason than ‘I’d rather you didn’t’.

Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 22:32

@Mistressiggi how about learners?

OP posts:
Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 22:31

And the thing that got me thinking this way was my dd who was distressed by the expression "good girl" and with constantly being called a girl. She knows she is a girl and is not ashamed of it. She also knows she has size 5 feet and is not ashamed of that but would be equally bewildered and frustrated if teachers referred to her and other similar children as "size fives" every day

OP posts:
Original poster
SarahCarer · 14/07/2018 22:25

Giles thank you there's a post I can engage with. I agree with all you've said and I don't think that is radical. My radical suggestion is this:

Children enforce gender stereotypes upon each other. Many seem to have a strong urge to put themselves into sex based groups, as noble said. I (and a number of other posters on this thread) think it would be preferable to reduce the number of times they are reminded consciously or unconsciously that others categorize them socially on the basis of their sex. So yes it is preferable to say "Now then class 5A" instead of "now then boys and girls" and it would not be acceptable to say "now then black children and white children" which is a comparison I do think it worth making. Of course I have no objection to the statement "boys have penises and girls have vaginas" and I in no way think we should want to abolish sex differences or imagine that we can. I have had to actively explain to my dd that she is female and cannot change sex and I have no issue doing so.

OP posts:
seasure · 14/07/2018 22:19

Sarah, you have in fact explicitly stated in your op all the different ways you want sex removed . It's there in plain sight .