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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What can teachers and other professionals do to create a more gender free environment in our schools?

287 replies

SarahCarer · 11/07/2018 23:11

As my dd is autistic and, as a result, Gender non Conforming (GNC) I thought I would share some thoughts about how to de-gender our schools.

Firstly, teachers need to find a way to address groups of children without saying "girls" or "boys" . This is commonplace in some schools and puts an unnatural focus onto a person's sex which is of no relevance at all in the context.

Secondly every school should have at least one unisex toilet which any pupil can use without special permission.

Thirdly school staff should avoid using the terms "good girl" or "good boy" Again the sex is of no relevance and the statement risks implying that they are being good because they are behaving in a way consistent with femininity or masculinity.

Fourthly ALL sexism and homophobia should be robustly challenged

Fifthly sex ed should not have gendered content

Sixthly there should be no organising of classes with reference to sex except in PE or for sex ed.

Any thoughts on these suggestions or suggestions for others?

These are some of the ways we can protect our autistic children from gender dysphoria (GD)

OP posts:
Ekphrasis · 12/07/2018 17:18

I must say I always say: "class x" or year 3 over boys and girls. I also say well done rather than good boy - firstly as it's good practise and secondly as an autistic child I taught once hated it - as they were a (their name), not just a generic boy or girl! The upset wasn't worth not remembering this...

Unfortunately many primary staff do need to be better educated about all the suggestions on this thread.

New schools being built these days certainly tend to have unisex single cubicle toilets for staff and are likely to have disabled shower/ changing / toilet spaces (a single room).

Babycham1979 · 12/07/2018 16:52

Furthermore, all children should be issued with Mao Suits in plain colours. The regulation haricut should be a practical short back and sides. Only ideologically pure literature should be studied and absolutely must NOT include any sexualised content whatsoever.

Physical Education should only be for productive purposes (eg potato-picking, sack-weaving), and pupils and teachers should only refer to each other as Comrade.

There you go, OP; I've clarified your initial post.

Nuffaluff · 12/07/2018 16:39

I hate the skirts only rule, especially in mixed schools, because of upskirting.

SuburbanRhonda · 12/07/2018 16:20

nuffaluff

We’re just about to amend our website so that instead of having two columns for uniform (one boys, one girls), we’ll just have one list with everything on it that can be worn as uniform. Then the children can take their pick.

Sadly the secondary school most of them transfer to has a skirts-only rule for girls. Some of our girls have never worn skirts to school and are not looking forward to it.

Nuffaluff · 12/07/2018 15:03

I would keep uniform, but girls and boys could wear trousers, skirts or shorts as they prefer.

Mossandclover · 12/07/2018 14:41

My autistic nephew is quite clear about there being boys and girls, he knows how their biology differs, and it makes perfect sense to him to have boys toilets and girls toilets. When he starts sex ed, I hope that it will not be in the mainstream class but will be taught by a specialist. It will need to have a lot of very explicit (as opposed to implicit) gendered content. As I am sure OP is aware, individuals with autism struggle with making sense of the social world about them and the social world as it stands is currently very gendered. The unwritten rules surrounding gendered stereotypes and expectations will need to be explained and part of that explaination should be how and where they can be ignored.

SuburbanRhonda · 12/07/2018 14:34

Uniform clearly reinforces stereotypes! It's its very purpose to do so!

It may be an unintended outcome (where for example, girls aren’t allowed to wear trousers) but it’s definitely not its purpose. Why would you claim that?

Nuffaluff · 12/07/2018 14:27

I wouldn't get rid of uniform, not every family can afford the latest fashions and bullying would happen.
I agree. I was one of those poor kids at school and I hated mufti days.
As a teacher I’m also not keen. We recently had a mufti day and the girls spent a lot of time comparing clothes, talking about how pretty they looked/ didn’t look, etc. Uniform gives them a break from the pressure of ‘looking nice’.

Mossandclover · 12/07/2018 14:17

One way to reduce the impact of gender in schools would be to make them single sex...

user1499173618 · 12/07/2018 14:08

Uniform clearly reinforces stereotypes! It's its very purpose to do so!

Gileswithachainsaw · 12/07/2018 14:01

See school uniform is probably one of the clearest examples of how little is actually thought of girls and why it's such an uphill struggle.

captainproton · 12/07/2018 13:56

I wouldn't get rid of uniform, not every family can afford the latest fashions and bullying would happen. I would get rid of blouses though, have had to hand out emergency safety pins to curvy students whose buttons couldn't cope.

Gileswithachainsaw · 12/07/2018 13:04

.also not sure how kids they have been in a class with and a school with for up to 7 years will suddenly think X is a boy when her name is called twice daily in the register and there's a good chance you grew up three doors down from them

CrochetBelle · 12/07/2018 13:02

Kids don't hold back from challenging each other if they think they're in the wrong toilet and gender non conforming girls are often interpreted by other kids as being boys.

I'm confused. Isn't it possible for a girl to be non-conforming, but still look like a stereotypical girl?

Gileswithachainsaw · 12/07/2018 12:52

Well I like to think most if us do but these stereotypes surround us everywhere and anywhere.

It's really hard to teach your kids they can do anything they want to do and then send them somewhere that uses the stereotypes to their advantages.

There are things schools can and should be doing on the basis that it only happens in schools.

For instance opening up the dress codes to encourage practical clothing and footwear as opposed to decorative (school shoes for example And uniform)

And not indulging gender nonsense and endangering kids with unisex toilets.

The rest we should be doing but it's like stopping the tide :(

Owlettele · 12/07/2018 12:28

Why should this fall down to teachers again?? Everything always comes back to how teaching and teachers should do this or that for some initiative or other. Don't get me wrong a disagree with gender stereotypes and feel everyone should be who they want to be without prejudice. However assuming it is teachers responsibility is unfair as they have plenty to do as it is. For the record. Teachers don't use good boy good girl ....they are not talking to dogs!

Gileswithachainsaw · 12/07/2018 12:21

They we teach kids that short hair and trousers doesn't mean someone is a boy.

Surely you aren't suggesting that someone who isn't performing femininity enough can't use the girls toilet Confused

There certainly should not he any kids on hormones in school.

And the only single enclosed toilet is likely to be the disabled toilet which should he used by people just because others decide they don't look boyish or girly enough to use the toilet..

SarahCarer · 12/07/2018 12:09

I will come back to this thread tonight and a massive thank you for all the great suggestions here. Can I just point out I asked for ONE unisex toilet that is available to all pupils. Kids don't hold back from challenging each other if they think they're in the wrong toilet and gender non conforming girls are often interpreted by other kids as being boys. No one wants to be repeatedly challenged by people of their own sex for being in their toilets. There are lots of other reasons why SOME children will want to use an individual private unisex toilet without needing special permission.

OP posts:
enoughisenough12 · 12/07/2018 11:24

Just a quick reminder of the latest guidance for schools about sex segregation - it's to the point and helpful.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719398/Gender-separation-guidance.pdf

And a reminder to those schools that have been told otherwise by groups with 'creative' interpretations of legislation:
Schools MUST provides sex segregated toilets for students over the age of 8 - it's illegal not to. No problem with some gender neutral toilets but the schools must have sex segregated toilet and washing facilities for pupils by law .

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2018 11:07

I agree, treating kids as exactly the same will do nothing to address persistent differences between sexes which need addressing.

Boys woefully underperform at school compared to girls in all subjects except maths. If you ignore sex, then any efforts to tackle this will be bland and ineffective. Girls take-up of STEM subjects at A-level lags behind boys. If you treat them all the same at school and ignore the societal influences outside of school, then that won’t change.

Gileswithachainsaw · 12/07/2018 11:04

And most of it harmful tbh

Its not abiut pretending there aren't differences it's about knowing the differences and taking steps to ensure that you give equal chances to participate on things and that you don't take full advantage of the different socialization by either allowing kids to get away with stuff or assigning roles to kids.

Shouldnt we teach them how to be proud to be a boy or a girl and that they can do anything they want to.

Rather than hide the fact they are boys and girls like.its a shameful secret.

user1499173618 · 12/07/2018 10:11

Giles - “one of the instances where treating people exactly the same is more discriminatory than acknowledging the differences in needs”

There is SO much superficial “equality of treatment” about.

Nuffaluff · 12/07/2018 10:02

Thanks surburban, I will download and show them to the head too.

PinkAvocado · 12/07/2018 10:01

Actually I agree with claraschu, no uniform would be great.

If schools couldn’t get on board with that then my previous suggestion of tracksuit/shorts or comfortable skirts/dresses in a uniform colour and trainers

claraschu · 12/07/2018 09:58

I agree, OP, that it is unnecessary to mention "girls" and "boys" all the time, and I think it subtly divides children along those lines. I would never divide by sex, actually, for things like plays and sports. I am not even sure about sex education. In Holland, my friend's kids had excellent, very comprehensive, sex and relationship education in mixed groups which included girls and boys.

I also think it would be helpful to abolish all uniforms and, actually, all mention of clothes in school.

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