What can teachers and other professionals do to create a more gender free environment in our schools?

imnobody I do a hell of a lot to promote equality actually: just because I don’t think the OP’s suggestions are great doesn’t mean I don’t implement other strategies. Just because we can see a problem doesn’t mean we have to try poor solutions.

Stark it kind of is. The op wants different facilities (toilets/ changing) and for sex Ed to be changed to accommodate her daughter. Who knows she is a female.
The question is what is she trying to achieve? The problem is that other kids are brainwashed by gender stereotypes. You don’t fix that by putting a girl in a separate toilet to the other girls. The solution is for the other kids to think in terms of sex and realize how stupid gender is.

CronnyRash
'Anything else that schools and teachers should do? For fuck's sake! We're already expected to sort out all of society's ills and do the paperwork'

CronnyRash
'Teaching's hard enough without making it even harder. If I was still teaching this could be the sort of thing that would make me quit, frankly.

Our job is to teach DCs to read, write and add up'

Black dog that isn't what the OP said at all

Teachers or ex teachers are claiming they have enough to do without bothering about equality. There has been lots of research showing unconscious bias in the way boys and girls are treated.

Yes i'm sure this has been said, i can't find it, do you mind either quoting or linking?

whereas some of the other posters seem to expect children to be the ones to deal with disruptive kids because the teacher either can't or won't and that's pretty disgusting IMO.

Gosh, which other posters would that be because I can’t see any on this thread.

I'm a bit stunned by this thread. Teachers or ex teachers are claiming they have enough to do without bothering about equality. There has been lots of research showing unconscious bias in the way boys and girls are treated. Teachers have an enormous impact as role models.
I've been into lots of schools where the bias is evident. I do think there is a lot of misunderstanding of what the OP is saying whether it's wilful or not I don't know.

Where we seat the pupils is one of the ways we deal with disruptive behaviour Snappity. It's a controlled start, and advised (to me, anyway) back in the dark ages when I was at teacher training. It's not abdicating responsibility, it's taking it.
Strange turn for the thread, but hey ho.

I am actually feeling slightly queasy that the op appears to believe that lining up the children and then splitting them up based on their clothing and style choices is progressive.
This is a step further than ensuring children aren’t disadvantaged by their sex, and ensuring that each child reaches their potential - which is the goal of any educator.

User - I assume the same ones the op’s dd does not conform to. She wears clothes that society has decided are ‘boys clothes’, wears her hair in what society has decided is a ‘boys style’ and frequently gets mistaken for a boy when out and about because of her appearance. It’s all aesthetics and social conditioning - she is of course female, but can be mistaken for male if you are only glancing, or don’t realize that short hair and trousers doesn’t equal male.
She has breasts. She menstruates. She is undeniably female. To deny this and insist that her hair or clothing choices render it inappropriate for her to be included in her own sex class would be cruel othering and would be upholding stereotypes, not dismantling them.
Children with autism need to be protected from stereotyping, not inculcated into it.

But by describing a child as GNC you are by definition forcing gender on all the other children- you are creating stereotypes and putting children into boxes.

I have 1 male child and 1 female child- how they choose to present themselves (hair, clothes etc) is up to them. The gender rainbow in my opinion serves only to restrict children’s freedom of expression.

I don't think I want teachers to enforce some sort of bland non- gendered uniformity (which I am not sure the OP meant?)
What we want is for sec stereotypes to be challenged, for GNC children to be valued and celebrated, and definitely not bullied. Hard task for teachers to tackle, given that in every other sphere of existence GNC kids and adults have very little visibility or support. (except to be told they are trans)

Can I add my two pennies worth on seating plans? I have a distracted, chatty son and a compliant, perfect daughter. Both NT both in grammar school.

My ds has to sit at the front - preferably in front of the teacher, preferably next to a compliant girl - he then works hard. The girls are happy to sit with him - he is very capable and fun and makes a good working partner.

My dd is often used as a “buffer” and has no issues with it - having an older brother she has no issues with telling them to shut up and get on with their work. She is academically at the top of the class and I genuinely think the boys up their game because they don’t want to look bad in comparison to her. In group work she is a hard task master. She isn’t one of the cool girls but the boys seem to behave well when sitting with her.

So two very different children, but both benefit from intelligent seating plans.

Gender neutral uniform is a pet hate of mine! Basically it’s making girls wear the boys uniform and trousers not cut to flatter a female body. Our school allows girls to wear trousers and I would say less then 1% do - they still manage to take part in many sports, play in orchestras, act, dance and many other things

On the general issue of seating plans - I let them sit where they want initially. That way I can figure out the friendship groups quickly and move children. It is usually obvious within a lesson or two who needs to be moved. And after moving 1-2 students in a class the rest tend to behave because they see sitting next to friends as a luxury. But then I teach in a (generally) good school where disruptive pupils are in the minority and the vast majority of students actually want to learn. I think it is particularly helpful for quiet but struggling students who want to ask their friends before putting their hand up.

Well done. You come across as trying to do your best for the children whereas some of the other posters seem to expect children to be the ones to deal with disruptive kids because the teacher either can't or won't and that's pretty disgusting IMO.

blackdog - in what way does your DD “not conform to gender stereotypes”?

blackdoggotmytongueagain

Very well put!

My dd2 is GNC. She is a girl. She does not conform to gender stereotypes. She uses the girls toilets, girls changing rooms, and attends girl guides. She is fully aware that her biology categorizes her as female. She menstruates. I would be doing her a massive disservice if I trotted into school demanding separate facilities, and demanding they changed language and routine to accommodate her, because this in itself would be essentially putting a giant flashing neon sign over her head proclaiming her difference.
Far better that the rest of the school see her using the girls facilities, and change their stereotypical ideas about constitutes female or male.
I abhor the idea that GNC pupils should be treated differently. That is ostracizing and othering.
Awful.
These children are boys or girls. It is the children who believe in stereotypes that needs to have their values questioned, by accepting GNC kids as their biological sex.
Why would you think that othering a child with autism would be a good thing?

I am hilariously entertained by the gender free sex Ed. Sex Ed is about sex. Nothing to do with gender at all. I’m struggling to see how it could be gendered ‘to make a baby you need a person wearing a skirt and a person wearing trousers’ Nah. Sex Ed is taught by sex. Gender is irrelevant.

Giles if the seat continues too long ask the school to move her. I would have no problem with that and would always vary them regularly anyway. It’s worse than a bloody wedding sometimes without with the ones you’ve been told can’t sit together and the ones that need to be near the board and ones needing to be near the door. But it’s part of the job to make the arrangement most conducive to learning. Mixed sex plans certainly help with learning names too.
To return to OP there are times when sex is used when I absolutely think it should be avoided. I don’t line them up by sex, or do a boys v girls quiz, or say thing like “all the boys are being really noisy” or ask for a girl to take a message.

Greetings though are hard - it is polite and normal in our society to say ladies/gentleman/boys/girls. There aren’t many other choices. Comrades perhaps? “Learners” is very impersonal and makes you sound like you’ve been on one too many training courses, so that wouldn’t work for me.

Clearly they weren’t going to put them next to a disruptive girl or boy.

An issue with one child in primary school does not mean that using seating plans that pay attention to sex are wrong.

Of course the role then went to Another hard working well behaved quiet girl...

red luckily she was moved very quickly this year but that wa sbt til after shed got stuck sat between 2 of them

Any other kids issues are not my business nor my concern. My job and her job is to turn up on time and behave and listen to the teacher and not disrupt the class. And to get on with her work.

The schools job is to facilitate the learning of all children preferably in a way which doesn't sacrifice one child's well being and ability to do their work for the sake of the rest of the class.

When behaviour deteriorates as they move up years then clearly strategies are about making it easier in the moment not solving long term.problems.

I sympathise I really do. But we can't expect to eradicate stereotypes and discrimination whilst simultaneously using it to our advantage.

Giles, that does really suck for your daughter. But I think it is part of a wider issue where the individual with poor behaviour isn't actually dealt with - especially if the behaviour is persistent but low level (such as constant chatting). That isn't something an individual classroom teacher can do anything about so by having seating plans they try to minimise the disruption for the whole class by sitting chatty students next to quiet ones. I agree it sucks, but unless we can get slt to agree that low level disruption is still disruption and persistent offenders need to be dealt with then there's not much more teachers can do.

On the general issue of seating plans - I let them sit where they want initially. That way I can figure out the friendship groups quickly and move children. It is usually obvious within a lesson or two who needs to be moved. And after moving 1-2 students in a class the rest tend to behave because they see sitting next to friends as a luxury. But then I teach in a (generally) good school where disruptive pupils are in the minority and the vast majority of students actually want to learn. I think it is particularly helpful for quiet but struggling students who want to ask their friends before putting their hand up.

It sounds like the pupil your DD was sat next to has more issues than just the socialisation of boys and girls.

I'm not saying anyone is doing a bad job. And I do understand that you are between a rock and a hard place.

I as a parent an doing my best to try and teach my kids to behave and not be easily distracted and I certainly don't expect schools to do my job for me. In fact I wish patents would bloody parent so whoever my kid sits next to she won't have problems nor cause the problems herself.

I'm.just talking as the parent of a child who was the chosen one and for who it had a detrimental effect on.

And yes I'm.talkimg primary at the moment sue doenst move up til September.