Repeat after us: TWAW

I'm not sure how useful class analysis is when the sample represents less than 0.01% of the class.

So the answer is no, then

Violent behaviour is a continuum. Murder is the tip of the iceberg.
Anyway, if you don't think it's useful then please feel free to go and do something more useful yourself.

The 'privileged white male' is the minority at the top and the 'violent male' is the minority at the bottom

Eh? Sometimes they're one and the same.

I'm not sure how useful class analysis is when the sample represents less than 0.01% of the class.

Flutterby - do you understand the concept of class analysis?

I just don't think it's a helpful thing to effectively demonise men as a group because of the actions of less than 0.01% of them, especially when drastically more are killing themselves than they are women. The 'privileged white male' is the minority at the top and the 'violent male' is the minority at the bottom. The vast majority are somewhere in between and the fact that most violent crime is committed by men doesn't change this fact IMO.

Maybe flutterby should check out some of those 'stats' ?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jean-hatchet/ride-for-murdered-womenbb_15651476.html

flutterby

I genuinely don't know what you want.

Do you actually want feminists and feminism to centre men?

Because in the meantime, what happens to the women who need feminism?

Who campaigns for the end to FGM, period poverty, honour killings. Who supports legislation to end the gender pay gap, uphold maternity rights and breastfeeding protocols. Who lobbies parliament about the erosion of women's rights and safeguarding re the GRA reforms. Who highlights the vaginal mesh scandal, supports abortion laws. Who counts dead women in parliament, rides to raise money for DV victims, crowd funds for rape victims, campaigns to instruct juries in rape myths. The list is never ending.

Who's doing all that?

to Floral - it takes real guts to change a strongly held belief

Flutterby - it's just classic dissemblance to say that we shouldn't be concerned about women being killed by their partners because men are killing themselves at higher rates.

to all on the thread who have been very gracious to me this evening. I am off to my truckle bed now, so I will leave you to it until some time tomorrow. KBO.

One effective (though not foolproof) way of dealing with male violence against women is to have women's single sex/sex-segregated spaces in situations where women's safety, privacy, dignity etc are paramount...

I know this opinion may offend

No it doesn't. It doesn't affect anyone else.

Yes, you've mentioned that all through the thread. I'm encouraging you to do more than just shrug at the reality of abuse and oppression. Really. I don't know why you think that's an appropriate response to the topic. If your kid was attacked and beaten, would you tell them you were sorry about the fear and pain and all that, but humans are shitty, and do they realize how many adults committed suicide? And then not bother reporting it and pressing charges against the aggressor?

I know this opinion may offend, but I already think the stats are relatively low compared to other concerns (why I mentioned example of suicide). Obv still a terrible thing to occur at all but humans can be really horrible.

Great respect, Floral.

I too have experienced some very difficult times in my life. They taught me, slowly and painfully, that I can endure nearly anything so long as I have love. I have achieved what is, by my standards, a certain wisdom, which is unexpected.

Flutterby, that's interesting. I believe Jesus said 'The poor you will always have with you' but no Christian worth the name has ever said that we shouldn't do everything we can to assist the poor.

So I'm not sure why you think it's logical to say that humans are doing evil things to each other, therefore we shouldn't bother to drill into the specifics of that and do all can to put an end to it.

So, male violence is the cause of extreme and widespread suffering. Should it be challenged or should we just shrug and say "Yeah, shit happens"? What do you think, flutterby?

Thank you for the lesson. We are enriched and enlightened.

You sound like an absolute warrior floral

I'm not dismissing women's attempts to help others, just pointing out that there will always be violent relationships between violent people and deaths will always occur unless we can change human nature - this isn't a conspiracy against women.

Sophocles, I appreciate you saying that, and I have done things in my life that have required bravery. Walking away from an abusive father, dealing with stays in mixed sex mental health wards and the abuse inside them, coming out of Christian fundamentalism.

Stopping dismissing the abuse and lack of rights of other women and instead beginning to actively fight for those rights for them was not brave of me, it was the very least I could do as someone who claimed to be a decent person.

datun - touché! I was trying to articulate something like that, but you did it so much better.

floral, it takes real courage to change a strongly held view like that. Good on you!

Bugger me Datun, why aren't you hosting Question Time?

The "repeat after me" is clearly sarcasm as if aimed at a child or dim witted individual...

Very unsurprising that they are aiming their propaganda at children and vulnerable individuals.

Still, good to know that everyone sees it.

Blech. How incredibly dull. A woman revelling in her opposition to campaigns and rights for other women. Who dismisses women murdered by their partners at an appalling rate just because she can.

Shamefully, I used to be as half-witted as that. I even ran a blog where I collected a merry band of followers who all agreed that women should really just quit complaining and get on with it, it wasn't so bad.

Eventually I started learning that what I was dismissing wasn't self serving harridans, but women who were being abused and killed, oppression on a worldwide scale that was endemic to almost every society on earth, because of their biology.

And I recanted my position, which was the truly self-serving one of wilful blindness. I'm very grateful that places like FWR exist and talk about these things, so there was a place for me to come to when I realized the men patting me on the head in approval were actually holding my head underwater.

I hope it will still be here when you realize you need to come up for air, too.

The "repeat after me" is clearly sarcasm as if aimed at a child or dim witted individual...