Looking for a neutral summary on trans issues

Which is something the trans-activist position makes it hard to do at all because they want transwomen in the women category not a separate category.

Necessary for rights under the Equality Act.

I know people say that the protected characteristic of gender reassignment protects them, but it does not. If they are paid less than their male colleagues, for instance, they need to be able to bring a sex discrimination claim as women. Gender reassignment does not help.

Snappity I repeat, i understand what someone's sex looks like, sounds like.. i have never knowlingly got that wrong. How do I tell what your gender Is?

If I and many others can reliably tell sex but not gender, how can you claim that self id is no threat To Women? because if we can't tell then it's down to someone's word and , as many women know, that's not to be trusted.

How many women see a red flag at phrases such as " I won't hurt you" " I'll look after you" " men who would do that are monsters"

Women’s bodies that they didn’t choose, that say nothing about any part of their identity, that are used by the gender caste system to oppress us by imposing identities we don’t have on us against our will, that are so because of our biological sex...

So I’ll ask again why are women’s bodies irrelevant but when transwomen do have surgeries and other medical interventions to give the impression they have a female body this is relevant?

Could it be to help others identify them as the opposite sex? Because humans do primarily identify people by sex characteristics? Do you think?

*as the only relevant thing

Both are relevant. I haven't said otherwise.

Yes you have. You have said functions of biology are actually functions of gender identity and that sex is not relevant re women because all the things are about gender identity which means women should and do see transwomen’s gender identity as relevant re sex segregation.

It is us that were saying ‘both are relevant’ and you repeatedly disputed this arguing that only gender identity is relevant...

This is why I keep saying re trans people it is dangerous to ignore sex and replace it with gender identity... Because we all know the combination of sex and not conforming to gendered expectations re expression is what is behind oppression and discrimination of trans people

Can you please provide the source for this sweeping claim?

Ah ha ha ha ha ha! As soon as you provide sources for all of the sweeping claims you have made all over the thread and which you have been asked to provide a source for many times...

Teen

I thought your explanations were spot on.....and if Snappity is picking holes in your reasoning, it's because your rational approach has got them worried

Oh Snappity - of 'blind canal' fame - so sensitive about Barracker's post.
Give over.

Ok well whatever weasel words you want to use... why are transwomen’s gendered bodies relevant re intimate spaces but women’s bodies are not

Both are relevant. I haven't said otherwise.

Can you please post the source for your claim?

Ok well whatever weasel words you want to use... why are transwomen’s gendered bodies relevant re intimate spaces but women’s bodies are not?

which is not the majority especially re the penis (for which facilities provided are better in the men’s toilets)

Can you please provide the source for this sweeping claim?

However, why are transwomen’s bodies relevant but women’s bodies aren’t? You just spent some time saying that women’s vulnerability is all gender and not sex at all and this means concerns are invalid... surely this means the concerns of transwomen are also all gender, not sex at all and invalid too?

No. I didn't say that sex was invalid. I said that gender is how we understand sex when interacting in a group.

And what does a trans woman do with her breasts and / or vagina?

I also agree with the point re appropriation of body terms.

But, upthread you made a big deal of saying that women’s bodies were totally irrelevant re vulnerability in intimate spaces.... in fact you wouldn’t even admit these spaces are intimate spaces!

If transwomen have had medical intervention to hide their sex characteristics and to give the impression that they have the sex characteristics of the opposite sex, which is not the majority especially re the penis (for which facilities provided are better in the men’s toilets) then the expression of their gender identity and sex = trans status cannot ever really be hidden. They may be at risk of violence from other males who can identify their sex + gender expression = trans. GC feminists, because we are GC, understand this because we are critical of the gender caste system, violence being perpetrated against us because of our biology + the gender caste system that places us as low status (lesbians are the lowest of the low, transwomen are higher than any biological woman).

However, why are transwomen’s bodies relevant but women’s bodies aren’t? You just spent some time saying that women’s vulnerability is all gender and not sex at all and this means concerns are invalid... surely this means the concerns of transwomen are also all gender, not sex at all and invalid too?

Well said Barracker

One may believe surgery changes sex but one can't force others to share that belief

@BarrackerBarmer, that was a truly offensive post.

"And what does a trans woman do with her breasts and / or vagina?"

I cannot answer that question without falling foul of MN talk guidelines.
So I shall simply say that I object, strongly, to the name for my female bodily organs being appropriated by people who are born male, and whatever said person does with their body parts I can guarantee it won't remotely resemble what I do with mine. I can't possibly advise on what to do with an inverted penis as I have never had one, although I hear they need to be dilated and cleaned regularly to avoid closing up and bacterial overgrowth/hairballs. I have no experience with this.
As to what to do with those body parts whilst in a toilet, again, no idea.
The only thing I do with my actual vagina in a toilet is handle my menstruation needs. My breasts don't interfere with my toileting requirements at all. In particular as I always refused to breastfeed in a loo.

We need different words for different things.

It would be terribly helpful if you acknowledged and respected females and how we differ from males.

Just a thought in case it's not been said. A woman doesn't have the option to stop being a woman (and therefore vulnerable), but a transwoman has the option to not wear a frock in a toilet. After all jeans and a t-shirt are women's clothes too.

And what does a trans woman do with her breasts and / or vagina?

Just a thought in case it's not been said. A woman doesn't have the option to stop being a woman (and therefore vulnerable), but a transwoman has the option to not wear a frock in a toilet. After all jeans and a t-shirt are women's clothes too.

Of course on principle people shouldn't have to dress to minimise risk, but women have been told to do that for a long time and that was ok.

Yeah, I tend to think it’s not particularly academic or theoretical too... It ends up being discussed in an academic and theoretical way because gender identity seems to be undefinable and unverifiable which is one of the reasons it’s not a good thing to replace definable and verifiable sex categories...

Completely agree with Offred . Heaven help us if this is genuinely what passes for academia. It’s mostly just empty waffle.