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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Look what happened when Alison Moyet refused to be called a cis woman **title amended at request of OP**

115 replies

LaSqrrl · 11/07/2018 09:48

"You can identify as anything you want these days, except as a woman. Consider what happened to British singer Alison Moyet. Last week, on Twitter, she said she didn’t want to be known as a cs-woman, just as a woman. ‘I defend everyone’s right to have the pronoun that they choose and will honour it’, she diplomatically said. And ‘I do not choose Cs for mine’, she continued. ‘It took women like me long enough to own the title “woman” in the first place. It’s a long enough word for me.’ The response to this calm, clear, polite act of self-definition? Fury. And insult. And abuse. On such a voluble level that Moyet eventually recanted her linguistic heresy, deleted her tweet, and left Twitter."
Read rest of the article here.

Moyet's response to being 'forcibly assigned' the c*s label was quite polite and restrained (far more so than I can ever muster). Yet she was relentlessly told by the twitterverse to 'stfu woman' with a pile of 'hate tweets' - that she should accept it, like it or not.

Moyet has several follow up tweets, including this one where she says:
"I will name you as you identify. Must you afford me less?"

Apparently the answer is "no". And more reasons to stfu and accept it. Hmm

'Woman' is not terra nullius, we are 52%. We will not be hoodwinked into giving up our names, only for males to claim them (that is what the c-prefix is all about). Our answer is "no" and is not the start of a 'negotiation'.

OP posts:
AnotherQuoll · 11/07/2018 22:48

They re a bunch of sexist and misogynistic malignant narcs. Bothering to engage with them anywhere beyond telling them "No" and "Tough luck", and you haven't a hope of them ever

LaSqrrl · 11/07/2018 22:06

Also, wanted to do a quick thanks to stealthsquirrelnutkin for finding the article link.

Clearly, a squirrel theme, but we are two different squirrels.

OP posts:
TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 11/07/2018 21:54

I am a woman. Anyone who wants me to call myself a ciswoman can fuck right off.

LaSqrrl · 11/07/2018 21:47

Thanks for the title change @HopeMumsnet

I read the previous Alison Moyet thread.
Where is that Ob?

OP posts:
pachyderm · 11/07/2018 19:29

Love Glinner. Just struck me that as an Irish man of around 50, he is well old enough to remember the theocracy we grew up in, the dogma in schools, the compulsory religious observance and groupthink. And he recognises this nonsensical cult for what it is. And he thinks "fuck that shit".

Flowers to Glinner.

Bowlofbabelfish · 11/07/2018 18:33

waddle I miss it immensely. It was like I’d found my true place in life ...(sobs quietly...)

Anlaf · 11/07/2018 17:54

This may out me but I once threw my house keys into a big cooncil street bin in .

As i attempted to reach them, legs waggling in the air and with much grunting, a wifie approach with cardie and raised eyebrow.

"Have you... loast something?" she asked.

I was like FFS no i just fancied a rummage "yes, thank you". She excellently went to fetch me a step though, legend.

Anyway, Alison Moyet!

Oblomov18 · 11/07/2018 17:48

I read the previous Alison Moyet thread.

arranfan · 11/07/2018 17:28

It's always Morningside, never Hunts Cross (not that I'm bitter - but I lived < 3 miles from the place immortalised in The Liver Birds).

I wonder what the reactions of those stereotyped Morningsiders Maisie Mac's Gran and her neighbour Mrs McKitty would be to the tweetage dished out to that nice Alison Moyet? Is there enough tablet in the world to make up for that?

Waddlelikeapenguin · 11/07/2018 17:23

Bowl there I was already thinking you perfect!
hope Way-trrose surely? Grin

HopeMumsnet · 11/07/2018 17:08
Bowlofbabelfish · 11/07/2018 17:06

Ex- denizen of Morningside here (gives secret handshake...)

LangCleg · 11/07/2018 17:05

The portal has its very own dictionary!

Waddlelikeapenguin · 11/07/2018 16:59

@hopemumsnet
quaite paranoid
Please tell me this was not a typo & you are in fact from Morningside Grin

arranfan · 11/07/2018 16:55

R0wantrees posted this Ronson TED talks in another thread and it seems useful here.

"Jon Ronson gave this talk in 2015, "How one tweet can ruin your life'

he concludes that 'perhaps there are two types of people in the world, those who favour humans over ideology and those who favour ideology over humans. He says he favours humans over ideology, but believes the ideologues are winning & they are creating a stage for constant artificial high dramas where everyone is either a magnificent hero or a sickening villain... which is not true about our fellow humans since we are all stupid & clever, we are grey areas '

'For the longest time Jon Ronson reveled in the fact that Twitter gave a voice to the voiceless ... the social media platform gave us all a chance to speak up and hit back at perceived injustice. But somewhere along the way, things took a turn. In this passionate, eloquent talk, Ronson explains how too often we end up behaving like a baying mob — and that it's time to rethink how we interact with others online'

I think it has a great deal of relevance, especially about power and the threat to democracy."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAIP6fI0NAI

HopeMumsnet · 11/07/2018 16:54

bless you both for posting, was beginning to feel quaite paranoid.

Cadencia · 11/07/2018 16:54

Great article - thanks for sharing.

Love Alison Moyet!

LangCleg · 11/07/2018 16:44

OMG - Hope has her very own Mumsnet portal! It kills threads AND EVERYTHING!

arranfan · 11/07/2018 16:40

You are very powerful HopeMumsNet - title change to DEATH in 3.5mins Smile

Please run a MN video tutorial on death ray stares and interventions. Even a Paddington Hard Stare would do.

HopeMumsnet · 11/07/2018 16:25
HopeMumsnet · 11/07/2018 16:21

Hi all! We've changed the title as requested. Sorry that the new guidelines are proving confusing on the issue of exact words and whatnot - just remember that we are all trying our best to be sensible and decent up at HQ and that we like you MNers (and you us, we hope, most of the time) and hopefully we'll not go too far wrong. Smile

Datun · 11/07/2018 15:57

And yet we have (apparent) women here all denying that the misogyny even exists. Or is confined to a small handful of outliers.

Alison Moyet! Just saying she doesnt identify as something. Politely.

Getting abused and forced to comply on pain of further abuse.

This IS transactivism.

ErrolTheDragon · 11/07/2018 15:19

It's definitely ok to use 'cis' in discussion, there have been a couple of threads recently with it in the title haven't there? And it's ok for anyone who wants to apply it to themselves to do so. Bute they can't then say 'and so are you'.

Anyway - if Alison Moyet wants to come and slum it with women here as a refuge from the nastiness of Twitter she'd be very welcome and no one will be allowed to isomerise her.

hackmum · 11/07/2018 15:05

I have never been a fan of Brendan O'Neill, but he is absolutely right on this. A great piece, written with clarity and conviction. The one thing I can say for him is that he is always fearless - he doesn't care what people think about him. Of course, men writing about transactivism never receive the same abuse as women who do, but even so, well done.

KERALA1 · 11/07/2018 14:41

The world has gone utterly mad. Thats a great article. Saw Alison Moyet sing recently she is fab, forgotten how good, song after song, all great. Alison if you are reading the silent majority of women are absolutely on your side!