India Willoughby has had facial feminisation surgery

Love Miranda Yardley and her ‘Are you high’ responses to deluded lunatics on twitter!

I always think of Pete Burns and what a mess he made of himself when I hear of TW having plastic surgery. Presumably he would be claiming to be a woman if he were around still.

Lurk totally agree... and my understanding from the magnificent Miranda Yardley was that when they trasitioned a good deal of time and effort was put into enabling transexuals to understand the reality o life post - op i.e. how the world would see you, amongst others - plenty of time for psychological reflection and less opportunity to emerge deluded....

It's very sad that they cannot see they will never be seen as a woman, by many people. Why don't Drs/ psychologists prepare these patients for the reality?

So in response to this - I think they did when NHS treated it as genuine dysphoria of the few.... but now they are overwhelmed AND PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANTLY the trans-orthodoxy NHS has signed up for in many cases prescribes exploring what it really means, with acceptance and support rather than questioning and explorin being the approach adopted now...

Means too many will be deluded ... and unhappy ... and perpetuation of I imagine mental anguish unabated by surgery

India as had more facial surgery well good for her if it will make her happier

Definitely agreeBespin.

But that's a bit of a non-story usually isn't it; 'adult has plastic surgery to face'?
Not usually a reason for an article in the Daily Mail or interview on This Morning.

That's a big 'if' Bespin.

what India as had more facial surgery well good for her if it will make her happier

16th April 2018
Justine Roberts interviewed by Julia Hartley Brewer Talk Radio about pressure on Mumsnet (at about 09:20). Also featuring India Willoughby

India specifically insisted people come and check out Mumsnet (having helpfully warned them that although they might think it a nice cosy 'coffee morning type place') it was actually a site 'percolating hatred' India especially directed people to the 'I am Sparticus' threads by way of example as this was all about 'outing' people.
JHB said 'if you still have a penis then you're a man'... later on she said she was going to look at the Spartacus thread.

Julia H-B commented the next day that she did not see transphobia.

What Justine said:
"I think the problem with this is that the trans lobby have confused an issue about people quite rightfully sticking up for the idea of hard won women's rights around....(interrupted but early JR said women's refuge and rape counselling as examples)

The upshot of the change to the legislation that's been asked for around self-identity, is that you are putting women, including transgender women quite frankly in vulnerable positions potentially.
We need to be able to discuss if we are changing legislation, and for very good reasons because I am totally in favour of recognition, equality and fair treatment of all individuals and letting them live how they live.
But we need to be able to discuss these competing rights and it needs to not just be shut down....and I'm afraid and to be honest India you've got to see the other point of view, you can't just plough on with the [position] 'our issue is the only important one"

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3222471-AIBU-to-be-extremely-proud-of-Justine-Roberts-Mumsnet-right-now

SPOFS I agree...

And yes when I read this I thought I do feel sorry for India being in such pain and so deluded....

but then I read the interview ROwan posted and thought HOW HOW....

How can anyone actually read Mumsnet and see this? How delusioned are they?

I have sympathy for most transgender people, but I have none for India.

India is a misogynistic ageist bully. In the BB house, India only shouted and screamed at the women, which says it all. India does not respect women, so I do not respect India.

Thanks for sharing gendercritter. Glad it's gone well for you. I wonder if people get used to just shoving the awareness to the back of their minds? But I imagine facial feminisation must be extreme for that sensation. I wonder if Bergdorf, Lees, etc feel as facially numb as if they're still anaesthetised.

This must be what Miranda Yardley meant when he talked about it being cruel to perpetuate the delusion.

One could make the sardonic quip "Welcome to the world of womanhood, love. Now you'll be worrying about how you look for the rest of your life."

It's a surgery for vanity plain and simple. Just wanted to use something as an excuse or to get sympathy to look less self centered

How could you claim this to be your authentic self when you need to completely change all aspects of your looks and physiology and attempt to belie your entire phenotype, to achieve what you apparently intrinsically are?
How can it be your authentic self when other peoples perception of you can trigger such a crisis?

This is surgery and medicalisation of a mismatch between the body and the minds perception of the body: and like with many other situations the surgical results will never satisfy because of the distortion of perception, and more and more extreme changes will be sought in pursuit of an unachivable goal (cf. Michael Jackson, Lola Ferrari, the Human Ken doll guy) etc

It's very sad that they cannot see they will never be seen as a woman, by many people.

Why don't Drs/ psychologists prepare these patients for the reality?

Men can't become women or dragons or unicorns but there will always be those who provide smoke and mirrors in exchange for cold hard cash! It is a shame shallowness isn't seen as a changeable trait.

Meh, good luck to IW who hopefully will be happier in themselves. Doesn't change any of the fundamental facts of biology of course.

TBH, I rarely think cosmetic surgery looks good. I look at Katie Price and wince at what she has done to herself, she was such a naturally pretty woman. But IW looks fine, not that totally fake looking outcome that some end up with: male and female and trans

I feel sorry for India. How much healthier it would be to accept their healthy body as it is. India will almost certainly never be read as female. How liberating it might be to accept this.