India Willoughby has had facial feminisation surgery

Jax I'll be honest I was quite happy to use she in most cases until the strict rules came in, then I started being a lot more careful not to make a typo and I'm less likely to make a mistake I'll be penalised for if I stick to they and the name.

I also mind being policed to this extent, forced compliance creates a different mindset to doing something voluntarily

Unintended consequences and all that...

Pete Burns is a terrible warning of dangers of getting addicted to surgery (Insert pronoun I'm supposed to use here as I don't know) was talented and beautiful what a waste

Was such a waste he (never id as a woman) would go abroad for dodgy budget surgery then go on reality tv to pay for it poor Pete

I hope it makes India feel happier but I see very little difference. India looks like a man, there's no getting away from that.

India's body is shaped like a man and India's hands are the hands of a man. What next?

I wish India happiness but until India learns to love India that won't happen.

Jax, that's not really our fault. I'm not going to call India 'he', but I won't be forced into calling India 'she', so I'm left calling India India to accommodate the rules and my conscience. Yes, it is really difficult to navigate, both in writing and reading, but there really isn't an alternative.

Oh gosh, another attempt at policing perfectly polite language with no attempt to actually join the conversation taking place.

Second one on this thread today.

All the typing of 'India' rather than 'she' isn't really making any point it's just making these posts eye roll inducing to read

SpareRibFem regarding Pete’s pronoun, I stick with ‘he’ because he stuck with a male name. Another example of following a person’s individual social cues (something we’ve been talking about on the misgendering thread, for the information of confused readers!)

I suppose India is in the same position as lots of other women/transwomen in the public eye, there is always someone coming up behind you who is prettier/younger.

In India’s case, she’ll be fighting for media work with competitors like Paris Lees. No contest for a lot of producers.

I admire the celebrity women that have refused to participate in this, Helen Mirren, for example, and Renee Zellwegger, it can’t be an easy (nor financially rewarding) path to take.

Oh, and I hope India is happy with the results of their surgery also. Its a big step having such brutal plastic surgery. But blaming it on 'trolls' (probably meaning feminists) is a bit shit. India had the surgery as India wanted the surgery.

The act has stalled through pressure from hardline feminist groups, who see all trans women as potential rapists in dresses.

Oh honestly, so sick of the purposeful misrepresenting of gender critical feminist views.

Mind I guess its partially true, Shrodengiers rapist and all that. All men are potential rapists, what with being men and all. But this making out that feminists think all transwomen will rape them is just silly. Nope, feminists see men as men. And think women should have space away from men in certain areas. And men seem to think the same, men don't seem thrilled at the idea of changing clothes with women and such, overall. And if they aren't bothered, they are very bothered at the thought of men watching their young daughters, or their partners getting changed.

India isn't female for goodness sake!

India is male. This is biological fact.

Poor old Pete Burns. RIP

Pete Burns is a terrible warning of dangers of getting addicted to surgery (Insert pronoun I'm supposed to use here as I don't know) was talented and beautiful what a waste

I've just seen a clip of India on This Morning. I think the surgery has made her look lots more feminine and also quite a bit younger.

The thing is I recon we could all look a lot 'better' (aka aesthetically pleasing/standard beauty image) with surgery, but I'd rather just find a way to be happy with myself. I can't afford surgery, I don't want the risks. I'm a 50 something woman and I look like a 50 something woman. India's surgery has made her look younger, IMHO. But why is that something to celebrate. It only puts pressure on us all to fight aging!

The other thing is that as an old skool transsexual woman I think India could be a voice of reason in this whole debate. I know everyone will not agree, which is fine. But sadly it is a lot about India.

Oh I was talking about Pete Burns with Dd i was watching Totps1986? and dd couldn't believe he used to look like that and how sad his surgery probably killed him

Yes I remember marylin

Lord love him

Beautiful just beautiful

Fantastic times

Yes! I was talking about Marylin the other day (to make a point about GNC) he was disturbingly beautiful at that time. Depressing how much more progressive the 80s look now...

Oh gosh. Darn YouTube and it’s suggestions!

Who remembers Marilyn?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bMw_iosf5QI

Snappity, we’ve had a pretty meaningful thread about the sadness and futility of conformity, whilst remaining respectful of India (and in my case, sharing a hero transwoman of mine, in a minor thread derail),.

Where is the purpose in coming in and policing polite language at this point?

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Anyway, here’s Pete Burns in his early days in the public eye. One of the most beautiful GNC boys that ever lived, IMO. I was genuinely sad when he passed away, he was a big influence on this small town girl:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=PGNiXGX2nLU

Pure nosiness pinklils, sorry, but is your username inspired by L Madigan?

India is female as you know. Misgendering her is entirely inappropriate. On this occasion I have not reported your post but deliberate misgendering is transphobic so someone else might.

Under His Eye...

snappity it feels like you're only on here to police us & insult us not engage.

That's my opinion too & you've posted some very insulting comments.

How do you actually know why she did or didn't do it? How much of a pathetic life must you have to lead to accuse someone of lying about their reasons for having brutal and expensive surgery. Yawn. She looks great anyway and always dresses real nice. It's sad people are so horrible to her.

Pressed post too soon

Engaging would be better, we won't always agree but we might learn from each other

snappity it feels like you're only on here to police us & insult us not engage.