Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Equality Commission on Sex

62 replies

Snappity · 10/07/2018 12:30

I have had an email today from the Equality and Human Rights Commission which will please nobody. Their understanding of sex in the Equality Act 2010 is that it means sex on a person's birth certificate, either issued at birth or under the Gender Recognition Act.

That's narrower than trans people would want (and I still think they haven't properly reflected the latest MB judgment in the ECJ) but it also confirms that it is not the biological definition gender critical feminists want so excluding someone with a GRC will be extremely difficult.

They say that they are in the process of formulating new definitions of sex, gender and gender reassignment.

OP posts:
FloralBunting · 10/07/2018 13:05

Really, Snappity? You're now saying you want there to be gatekeeping on self ID? Over a period of several years? Isn't that what the GRC is now? I'm genuinely interested in your proposal there, how would it differ?

AngryAttackKittens · 10/07/2018 13:04

Anyone remember the scene in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure where Napoleon is losing a game, so he knocks over the board? Suddenly remembering that for some reason...

FloralBunting · 10/07/2018 13:02

You're conceding nothing? Knock me down with a feather, I would never have thought it.

Original poster
Snappity · 10/07/2018 13:02

That’s the argument against self ID isn’t it? - - That the GRC gives access to sex-based protections and so should at least involve some gatekeeping.

Self-ID needn't mean no gatekeeping. For instance it can still require evidence of living in the acquired gender for several years and that's what I will fight for - Self-ID as a slow backstop.

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 10/07/2018 13:02

The Equality Commission don't have the power to change how human biology works, so no.

Original poster
Snappity · 10/07/2018 12:59

I am conceding nothing - the Commission is wrong.

But will gender critical feminists also stop saying that sex is biological sex? Because even the Equality Commission is now saying that trans women with a GRC are women regardless of their biology.

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 10/07/2018 12:51

So after arguing that your personal definition was the correct one for months it finally occurred to you to actually check and see what the commission themselves say?

Better late than never I suppose, but wow.

Original poster
Snappity · 10/07/2018 12:50

No. I am not conceding, anything. I have submitted a formal complaint that the Commission is using a definition which is inconsistent with the Equality Act.

OP posts:
Baroquehavoc · 10/07/2018 12:48

There's a lot of information on Fairplayforwomen.com

ArfArfBarf · 10/07/2018 12:48

That’s the argument against self ID isn’t it? - - That the GRC gives access to sex-based protections and so should at least involve some gatekeeping.

Offred · 10/07/2018 12:44

Are you going to now concede that yes, by changing the legal meaning of sex in law, the GRA specifically modifying the definition of sex in law, sex based protections are affected after all?

Cos the commission has basically told you that this is true in that email....

Offred · 10/07/2018 12:41

Is this news to you? That legal definitions are legal definitions?

The fact that the legal definition of sex was detached from biological meaning and moved towards gender in law by the current GRA thereby weakening sex based protections which were intended to address discrimination based on sex, that the current law does not say what many trans orgs are advising it does and that the proposed changes would further dilute the legal meaning weakening those sex based protections further is what people on here have been talking about all this time!