What's wrong with fighting for the third space?

RatRolyPoly "Except they may have permission from the people who actually have control over the space"

That would be fine if females had been asked originally if they actively agreed [consented] to have their space opened up to everyone else. They never have been asked though.

Do you really think thats a gotcha?
The sign on the door says 'women only'. Its a social contract. Activists are trying to destroy the concept of the consensual social contract and boundaries.
Don't try to dress it up as progressive or feminism.

RatRolyPoly "It is a boundary of sorts, no doubt; but in what way is it "personal"? "

It's personal to whoever is in the room at the time. That door is a boundary for all females using that room at any time, all the time.

When you open the door to a women's changing room it's an act of consent, to see women naked and to be seen naked. It's based on the common understanding of what a woman is. Do you understand that?

Well Rat, let’s turn it round and use the race analogy that you lot are so fond of.

I don't think I've ever used a race analogy

In your example I assume the Bangladeshis own or are otherwise responsible for their community centre. Their centre, their right to withhold or grant consent.

The external door to the Women's Room is one such personal boundary.

It is a boundary of sorts, no doubt; but in what way is it "personal"? Your body is personal, space you own is personal - it's of your person. In what way is a space owned by someone else yours personally?

Yet, some men ignore that boundary line, cross it and invade our space without asking permission

Except they may have permission from the people who actually have control over the space, and therefore have the capacity to grant or withhold consent in the first place.

RatRolyPoly The mere fact that you ask this question about consent indicates that you have no understanding of personal boundaries

Actually it's looking more and more like you don't understand consent and "personal" boundaries... You cannot consent or withhold consent over something which belongs to someone else.

If a man did not consent to my having sex with another man, should his consent be respected?

If it was a woman withholding that consent over what I do with my body?

What if you wanted to consent to my having sex on my behalf, without my permission?

What if a man wanted to?

Funny kind of feminist who would think consent can be conferred by anyone other than the person who owns or is responsible for the body or space in question.

Well Rat, let’s turn it round and use the race analogy that you lot are so fond of.
Would you think it was reasonable if a white British person demanded entry to a Bangladeshi community centre and insisted all the Bangladeshi users speak English rather than Bengali, despite a large majority of the Bangladeshi community objecting?

It’s their space, and hard won no doubt, so do you think that white persons wish to be included trumps their need for a separate safe community space?

You could try explaining why you think your use of the word is appropriate

I just did

Bodily privacy and integrity is my right.

Plus, sharing with XY puts me at risk.

Why do you question this? It's bizarre.

RatRolyPoly The mere fact that you ask this question about consent indicates that you have no understanding of personal boundaries.

The external door to the Women's Room is one such personal boundary. That door says to men this line must not be crossed, this space is out of bounds to men [regardless of how they present themselves]. Yet, some men ignore that boundary line, cross it and invade our space without asking permission .. that is what is meant by violating our boundaries against our consent.

If you read what I said, relying solely on data is a mistake. Hence the Ian Huntley disaster which you appear to have conveniently glossed over?

It's context plus data. Not to rely solely on one set of data and one research report when dealing with serious issues. My point was, some polls showed one thing and some another. This is applicable to all areas of research. It depends who you ask. And the questions you ask. And what outcome you are seeking to support via the research in the first place.

The world doesnt operate in a controlled research environment.

In the UK our justice system is founded on the premis of 'better one guilty man go free than a hundred innocents jailed' (along those lines)

I would apply the same premis to this argument.

If there is a risk of one woman being attacked etc, better to keep the sex segregation. Enough women have suffered at the hands of men. I don't want to see anymore.

Leveraging the word consent? Isn't there an MRA board that's missing you today?

You could try explaining why you think your use of the word is appropriate, if indeed you aren't just leveraging it as a trump card?

Why is this not good enough for you? You think consent is negotiable?

Er, no, I don't think that. But I don't think you can exercise "consent" over something that isn't yours. Perhaps I don't consent to you having any lunch today. Why are you having lunch? Do you think consent is a negotiation??

Using a toilet and the communal space around the toilet is private. I don't want to share it with men because it puts me at risk.

Why is this not good enough for you? You think consent is negotiable?

Leveraging the word consent? Isn't there an MRA board that's missing you today?

This is what happens when you change single sex facilities to unisex.
guce.oath.com/collectConsent?brandType=nonEu&.done=https%3A%2F%2Fm.huffingtonpost.ca%2F2015%2F10%2F06%2Fu-of-t-bathrooms-voyeurism_n_8253970.html%3Fguccounter%3D1&sessionId=3_cc-session_5b6007db-2b29-4b06-9cdf-3704808427eb&lang=en-ca&inline=false

That happened to my friend betty

She was naked, froze and just screamed

Luckily there was an off duty police man there!!

Can someone with the patience please explain the "consent" argument to me please?

I mean obviously consent to touch your body, consent to enter property you own etc., clearly I understand all that.

But what does consent mean when it's a question of someone not wanting to share a space not owned or overseen by them? Like a public toilet, or a shop changing room? I mean whose consent needs to be given to transpeople in that context? Because I can't see how it's the other users of that space in those instances really. I mean the other users can object, but I don't think "consent" is the right word, is it? They do not have ownership or power over those spaces to give consent. If men everywhere said they consented to a transman using their changing rooms in M&S, they don't have the power to confer that consent; if M&S disagree then it's meaningless.

So in what capacity are you thinking "consent" is the appropriate concept for your not wanting to share a theatre's toilet block with transwomen? Surely you're just using the word to leverage it's emotive properties within feminism? Because it doesn't seem even the least but appropriate to me. I think it actually devalues the concept, and that's no good for anyone.

Dadjoke isn't listening he's just posted his own thread on AIBU asking whether his contribution as a man to talking about 'trans' issues is useful or not! Clearly if you're a man the content of what you post is by the by!

While men (including the ones who identify as women) commit the overwhelming majority of sex and violent crime, women will need single sex facilities where they are vulnerable and/or naked.
This. In spades!!!

Wearing a dress doesn't make you less likely to commit a violent crime. Being a woman, does. Wearing a dress doesn't make you a woman. (any more than wearing a chicken suit makes you a chicken).

I and many of my fellow women have not reported these as crimes,
for many of us it's just a fact of life

And even now in the year 2018 we would be laughed out of the police station if we tried to report any of the low level stuff. The cat calling, the hand up your top or skirt, the leering.
Despite knowing that this behaviour gets worse as the responsible person gets away with it.

Omg this guy is mincemeat

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No worries DadJoke, and no need to be shamefaced! We all sometimes overreach, the important thing is that you’ve recognised it!

Why doesn't our consent count?

Here you go, DadJoke

sisterhoodispowerful.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/a-uk-guide-for-non-lawyers-about-protecting-women-only-spaces-june-2016/

TheBiologicalWoman I am not mocking your fear. I was frightened all the time when my son came home late, or had to catch the bus alone. That doesn't mean it's statistically likely.