Grace Petrie on London protests

TheGoddessFrigg I can't speak for Grace but have been called bisexual and accused of being a man on here more times than I care to remember. I've even been called a violent rape apologist. Simply because I'm not gender critical.

Who is Grace Petrie?

had my sexuality and gender erased

Really? Did you really? How did mere words on a screen manage to do that?

If you choose to be a public figure and take a stance on a controversial issue, you should expect people to disagree publicly and this isn't bullying. Us making a thread here isn't bullying, we're entitled to disagree.

When disagreement escalates into an orchestrated pile-on or personal attacks, that's not OK. The people criticising Petrie's music were out of line, because that's a personal attack insofar as it's not relevant to her criticism of #gettheLout. If I'd instructed all two (or however many there are these days) of my twitter followers to @-mention Petrie, that wouldn't be OK either.

Why do we ask lesbians how they define lesbian? Because we come from a position where words have meanings and those meanings matter. It's Debating 101 to define terms clearly from the start.

Could have written Grace Petrie's quote myself.

That is identical to my experience of trans people and transphobic feminists.

Glad she has spoken up, lesbians like us need to be heard.

Thank you nauticant

Oh and Sloth did you bother reading any of my later posts ?

I stand by everything I say about her politics and talent and what I said about the fact she has every right to talk about her experiences of being bullied and to be believed.

Did you not read the rest of my post, lass? The part where I said

I know you personally are not a GC feminist

And you happily joined in

I criticised her because of what I consider to be her extremist, half- baked left wing politics. I said I had no interest in the trans/ lesbian issues. I am very happy to criticise any one at any time who holds her political views.

He's been attacked in the past for being 'transphobic' because of a particular episode of the IT Crowd - so it's very possible he was "drawn into" the argument because of that

Ah, didn’t know that - I’ll look it up. I have read that he is friends in real life with (I think?) Rebecca Reilly Cooper or another high-profile GC feminist, so perhaps that has something to do with it too.

Yes, it is so refreshing to see a man take a different stance! Even though I don’t agree with all his tweets. Normally when you see a male face in a Twitter thread about GC issues you just KNOW the tweet is going to be some inane nonsense about TERFs, and it almost always is.

I have a good hit rate of finding men being gender critical when I discuss this stuff with them. That includes men who would never in a million years refer to themselves as gender critical and tend to pull a face when they hear the word "feminist".

But then I don't move completely within lefty dudebro woke circles.

It's certainly refreshing, Sloth. I think he is one of the genuinely rare species that respects and listens to women.

He's been attacked in the past for being 'transphobic' because of a particular episode of the IT Crowd - so it's very possible he was "drawn into" the argument because of that.

Thanks ToetoToe, I see it now!

Understand if this is too off-topic, but does anyone know how Graham Linehan came to be so involved? It’s very unusual to see a man this invested in GC debates, and when they are, they are usually on the other side, like Owen Jones...

You lesbian ladies just need to accept that you havent had a real 'lesbian' sexual experience until you have had a lady penis - highly recommend it....but if you choose not too accept ladypenis well you are just transphobic cotton knicker wearing witches .....

*I can still see glinner's tweet.

No, I can still see it.

If anyone remmebers the title of it, could you please put up a link to the thread here where lesbians discuss their negative experiences because of the trans debate

There's a thread here gendercritter:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3146166-Transactivism-and-the-lesbian-community

It links to an interesting and shocking reddit thread:

www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/7s4bu2/as_a_lesbian_in_university_i_feel_increasingly/

Did Glinner delete his tweet? I can’t see it in the thread...

How dare she tell glinner to fuck off He's got more talent in his little finger than an army of Grace Petries.

Robin Ince should have a word with the wife of his good mate Brian Cox. She'd explain to him why men cannot be women or lesbians - although as a man of science, I would expect him to be able to grasp that concept himself.

Did you not read the rest of my post, lass? The part where I said

I know you personally are not a GC feminist

?

but the whole reason she is experiencing this pile-on, including the criticism of her music, is that she dared to disagree with the mumsnet party line

I don't presume to talk for other posters so don't you presume to talk for me.

I have no interest in the trans/ lesbian issues. My criticism of her is entirely based on her music and her general extreme left wing politics.

do you think no musician should ever hear adverse criticism?

Of course not, but the whole reason she is experiencing this pile-on, including the criticism of her music, is that she dared to disagree with the mumsnet party line. It’s not a good look. I know you personally are not a GC feminist, but she came to your attention because others here were laying into her merely for saying what very obviously, based on this thread, is true. And you happily joined in.

She's recounting her experiences. At no point does she say 'my experience is every lesbian's

Apologies if I misread it then. My impression was that she was recounting her own experiences in response to what other lesbians were saying about their own, and saying “well if this is really happening how come it’s never happened to me?”.

As I said above I don’t agree with laying in to other women in the name of feminism. And I came to this debate originally myself with the same kind of view you have, saying the same kind of things you said, and got the same kind of reaction.

I see people even moved onto insulting her music

Oh come off it- if she puts herself forward as s political songwriter saying she isn't very good at it is fair game.

That has nothing to do with being gender critical- or do you think no musician should ever hear adverse criticism?