Safeguarding girls and protecting women post Jimmy Saville & #metoo

Theres some very good information here;
cultinformation.org.uk/question_what-is-mind-control.html

Peer Group Pressure
Suppressing doubt and resistance to new ideas by exploiting the need to belong.

Rejection of Old Values
Accelerating acceptance of new life style by constantly denouncing former values and beliefs.

Confusing Doctrine
Encouraging blind acceptance and rejection of logic through complex lectures on an incomprehensible doctrine.

Removal of Privacy
Achieving loss of ability to evaluate logically by preventing private contemplation.

Dress Codes
Removing individuality by demanding conformity to the group dress code.

Chanting and Singing
Eliminating non-cult ideas through prolonged group repetition of mind-narrowing chants or phrases.

Financial Commitment
Achieving increased dependence on the group by burning bridges to the past, through the donation of assets.

Finger Pointing
Creating a false sense of righteousness by pointing to the shortcomings of the outside world and other cults.

Isolation
Inducing loss of reality by physical separation from family, friends, society and rational references.

Controlled (conditional) Approval
Maintaining vulnerability and confusion by alternately rewarding and punishing similar actions.

No Questions
Accomplishing automatic acceptance of beliefs by discouraging questions.

Guilt
Reinforcing the need for salvation by exaggerating the sins of the former lifestyles.

Fear
Maintaining loyalty and obedience to the group by threatening soul, life or limb for the slightest negative thought, word or deed.

Replacement of Relationships
Destroying pre-cult families by arranging cult marriages and families.

Those links are so telling RedToothBrush. It's great this is being discussed in such detail. My WTF radar is off the scale at the moment.

So many attempts to isolate trans children from the protection of the adults - in families and schools. They are apparently 'so special that only a tiny group of those with the right "qualifications" should deal with them'. And what is the qualification required ? Being Trans.

The parallels between cults like Scientology and those who think they can change sex are clear. I know a lot about cults having researched them extensively. SM replicates the cultic dynamics hence why it is so dangerous when abused by those with a vested and malign interest in targeting vulnerable people under the guise of "offering friendship and companionship in a time of need."

Hmm this one is interesting

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Communal%20Abuse/communal_abuse.html

It gives this as a definition.
Abusive communities are often called cults.

The 'safe group' signs are particularly telling tbh.

Thats what every parent should look for and expect. And resist anything that doesn't reflect those.

You might as well paint a target on the trans child's back.

Looking on twitter at some accounts, you'd be forgiven for thinking that, that was the deliberate, conscious and intended end goal. There is behaviour which is highly questionable that no one is blinking at.

Remember a cult isolates its target from its support network in order to abuse and exploit them in some way; either psychologically, financially or psychically for the benefit of the group leadership, rather than the benefit of the group as a whole and its individual members.

In this context, you should be very wary of anyone, actively going out to 'help identify' someone as trans as this in itself, by its very definition, IS part of a targeting process.

Its not neutral in the sense that its just there to offer support, if someone comes looking for it. Its going out to find those individuals.

Educating people to understand the concept of someone who is trans and encouraging tolerance is very different. Where is the line between education and doing something more than that? How much is too much? Are groups crossing that line?

I'll park that thought there with a little reminder of the signs of a cult:
Source

Social aspects of cult-like behavior
For a group to be a cult in the social sense, many of the following characteristics would have to be present. For a group to be a cult in the doctrinal sense, essentials (in this case of the Christian faith) would have to be violated. Some of the characteristics are listed below.

1) Submission:
1 - Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.
2 - Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.
3 - Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

2) Exclusivity
1 - Their group is the only true religious system, or one of the few true remnants of God's people.

3) Persecution complex
^1 - Us against them mentality. Therefore, when someone (inside or outside of the group) corrects the group in doctrine and/or behavior, it is interpreted as persecution, which then is interpreted as validation.

4) Control
1 - Control of members' actions and thinking through repeated indoctrination and/or threats of loss of salvation, or a place to live, or receiving curses from God, etc.

5) Isolation
1 - Minimizing contact of church members with those outside the group. This facilitates a further control over the thinking and practices of the members by the leadership.

6) Love Bombing
1 - Showing great attention and love to a person in the group by others in the group, to help transfer emotional dependence to the group.

7) Special Knowledge
1 - Instructions and/or knowledge are sometimes said to be received by a leader(s) from God. This leader then informs the members.
2 - The Special Knowledge can be received through visions, dreams, or new interpretations of sacred scriptures such as the Bible.

8) Indoctrination
1 - The teachings of the group are repeatedly drilled into the members, but the indoctrination usually occurs around Special Knowledge.

9) Salvation
1 - Salvation from the judgment of God is maintained through association and/or submission with the group, its authority, and/or its Special Knowledge.

10) Group Think
1 - The group's coherence is maintained by the observance to policies handed down from those in authority.
2 - There is an internal enforcement of policies by members who reward "proper" behavior, and those who perform properly are rewarded with further inclusion and acceptance by the group.

11) Cognitive Dissonance
1 - Avoidance of critical thinking and/or maintaining logically impossible beliefs and/or beliefs that are inconsistent with other beliefs held by the group.
2 - Avoidance of and/or denial of any facts that might contradict the group's belief system.

12) Shunning
1 - Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled.

13) Gender Roles
1 - Control of gender roles and definitions.
2 - Severe control of gender roles sometimes leads to sexual exploitation.

14) Appearance Standards
1 - Often a common appearance is required and maintained. For instance, women might wear prairie dresses, and/or their hair in buns, and/or no makeup, and/or the men might all wear white short-sleeved shirts, and/or without beards, or all wear beards.

It is easy to go through each of these and come up with something which fits very neatly.

familiesagainstcultteachings.org/Cult-Education/Cult-Warning-Signs/
Also go through this one too - as it talks about signs of a 'safe' group.

Also for safeguards to work they have to be applied universally. The moment a group is singled out for exemption you've created a loophole through which predators can and will slip, and this is the case regardless of which group is being exempted.

And the frustrating thing is that everyone knows this.

I've had different types of security vetting and worked in various secure buildings over the years, and no-one but no-one is exempt from the checks that get carried out periodically , or from good practice protocols (no "tail gating" - everyone has to use their own ID to swipe into the building; ask to see ID if someone doesn't have it on display; everyone goes through the metal detectors in certain buildings; only share confidential information if you have seen evidence that someone has the required vetting etc etc)

Because it applies equally to everyone, it's not offensive because it's not personal. And anyone who suggested that the rules might be relaxed "because we know X is OK" would get shouted down immediately.

These practices, like safeguarding practices, have been developed over many years. Be wary of anyone who wants to throw out policies and procedures designed to keep us all safe.

(As an aside, this is one of the things I'm struggling with re the GRC consultation. I've got a different thread to try to understand exactly why the process is so onerous, so humiliating, so unreasonable, but I'm yet to hear any particularly compelling arguments)

This screenshot pretty much sums up a lot basically a 23 year old is identifying as 13 to be with a 14 year old.
I'm guessing it's probably fake, but it's so easy to twist the whole nature of identifying as something.

The idea of actively encouraging certain children to expect unrelated adults to keep secrets from their parents as a matter of course is so terrible that I can't figure out if it's cluelessly misguided or actively malicious.

You might as well paint a target on the trans child's back.

Look! These ones are the easiest to exploit! You can keep their secrets and not involve any other agencies! Quick! Get 'em!

Also for safeguards to work they have to be applied universally. The moment a group is singled out for exemption you've created a loophole through which predators can and will slip, and this is the case regardless of which group is being exempted.

Exactly.

Yes, the Allsorts and Mermaids guidance has a wholesale disregard for the interests of girls. This is a feminist issue and a rights issue and their guidance needs challenging on that. I get it that they object because they're totalitarians who want trans centred uber alles. I understand at least why they object.

But the confidential disclosures and rejection of multi-agency working put all children at risk and especially the trans children. It's absolutely insane.

Also for safeguards to work they have to be applied universally. The moment a group is singled out for exemption you've created a loophole through which predators can and will slip, and this is the case regardless of which group is being exempted.

This is so important.

I've raised the safeguarding points I've made here so many times and been screamed down by transactivists - You vicious bigot! You think all trans people are paedos! - because they can't conceive that I'm talking about anyone else but them.

It doesn't matter how many times I say FFS, you useless idiot. I'm trying to protect the trans children from paedos - they can't hear me. Because if I'm talking, it can't be about anything but them.

Yep. It's so frustrating - they genuinely can't see that the whole point of safeguards is to protect the group being safeguarded. The feelings of the other people being screened and filtered don't matter at all, because it's not about them, and if a person gets angry or offended about being screened for the protection of children then that's a massive red flag in itself.

Also for safeguards to work they have to be applied universally. The moment a group is singled out for exemption you've created a loophole through which predators can and will slip, and this is the case regardless of which group is being exempted.

Being on 'the wrong side of history' tends to mean you were a victim of tyranny, rather than an oppressor. Thus you should perhaps be suspicious of those who us the term rather than see them as great progressives cos its not got a brilliant precident to fall back on. History is written by those who live, not those who die.

In this context, it becomes much clearer that its a concealed threat rather than a declaration of being a moral guardian to be on 'the right side of history'.

Thank you Red. I felt it but could not figure out how to say it.

The things that struck me were that apparently scouts doesn't have a policy of sex segregation of sleeping arrangements anyway - leaders carry out their own risk assessments.

Ah the case by case appproach. Sounds familiar.

but scouting has had a lot of safeguarding scandals interesting, I didn't know this.

There policy has the mermaids logo on it.

Whose? The Scouts? How do you mean?

so i've looked at the scouts policy, as there are lots of girls in scouting. I know parents don't send girls to scouts expecting no boys or male leaders as they do with Guides, but scouting has had a lot of safeguarding scandals and I was interested if they had a different stance as a lot of their safeguarding has improved.

There policy has the mermaids logo on it.

The things that struck me were that apparently scouts doesn't have a policy of sex segregation of sleeping arrangements anyway - leaders carry out their own risk assessments.

I think we need to tell govt exactly what we want in the responses to the consultation- not just object - they are not to be trusted with coming up with anything workable nor reflective of our concerns - they seem too stoned to critically think.

Red I fear we are out of time for a scandal. We needed one six months ago.

It's depressing, but I think you might be right about this. The framing of the consultation reflects the prevailing winds and it seems more aimed at getting rid of safeguarding, not strengthening it.

Just a reflection:

Being on 'the wrong side of history' tends to mean you were a victim of tyranny, rather than an oppressor. Thus you should perhaps be suspicious of those who us the term rather than see them as great progressives cos its not got a brilliant precident to fall back on. History is written by those who live, not those who die.

In this context, it becomes much clearer that its a concealed threat rather than a declaration of being a moral guardian to be on 'the right side of history'.

I fear we are out of time for a scandal. We needed one six months ago.

The media is acting like a weather vane not a teller of truth.

Thank you, Red. Please keep continuing to highlight that there is nothing progressive about what is going on.

James Patrick @ j_amesp
Sadly we’ve reached a point where people simply can’t effectively translate the world around them in order to identify real risks. And, at a time when our defences and regulatory structures have failed, this can only end one way. Aided and abetted by poor punditry.

This tweet ISN'T about trans issues at all.

It's about how democracy has failed and the media has failed in its job to hold people to account.

Patrick has been ahead of the game for sometime on how fake news has been weaponised and how it's undermined democracy. He was initially thought of as crazy, but he was one of the first to pick up on the scandal of how Facebook had been misusing data. Today they have been fined.

My point is that what we are seeing is a revolution in progress, where old institutions are destroyed. And we are turning authoritian. We don't know how it will end but all safeguarding frameworks disintegrate in this process of such a revolution. The media, the courts, the law. And our opportunity and ability to vote our way out of oppression, as democracy is underpinned by all three. As that happens those with inherent power rise to the top and start to dictate to minorities who don't have that inherent power. This has already happened within the LGBT community.

Authoritianism NEVER safeguards the vulnerable. It exploits them. They are the foundation of what it is built upon. Human exploitation and suffering for the benefit of a select privileged few, and those who enable them.

Our current crop of authoritians are ultra capitalists to whom nothing matters but money. They are a international network who behave a lot like a mafia ring. Gender stereotypes to control the population whilst also rinsing them of money, fit very nicely into the plan.

There might be no scandal in this context. Because people stop caring and view it as an everyday acceptable thing in society, which the vulnerable deserve for being weak. And the media stop reporting it, out of fear.

I know a trans woman who hit an older woman with a brick severely injuring her, the woman was never the same after. The trans thought she had been mocked as she walked past and came back with a brick.