Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please can someone explain why the GRC process needs to be simpler?

134 replies

OlennasWimple · 04/07/2018 19:09

I'm drafting my response to the GRC consultation. I know what I'm writing for the latter bits, where it gets into the interplay with the Equality Act and single sex spaces. But I'm getting quite cross with the first bits about the actual process and the cost of applying for a GRC. I fell like I must be missing something, because surely we aren't going through the whole consultation process - and hostile debate on self-ID - because some trans people don't want to fill out a lengthy form and pay a few hundred quid (or fill out a form to apply for a fee remission)?

This is a genuine question, not intended to be a re-hash of the arguments for or against self-ID, just a discussion on the actual process of applying and why it's so terrible at present.

OP posts:
enoughisenough12 · 05/07/2018 05:17

Those who want to change sex need to be socially aware enough to recognise that such a momentous decision has social consequences - both for themselves and for others. If they are not committed enough or prepared to go through the current process (or similar) then they have no business in expecting the rest of society to see them as they wish.
Self ID is the problem - in terms of potential safety of others and in terms of debasing individual and collective identity.

thebewilderness · 05/07/2018 05:07

There are seven NHS Gender identity Clinics currently.
The problem seems to be that they are turning people down at the clinics.. Transgender advocates want to institute Self ID so that people who want to transition will not, can not, be told no.

Battleax · 05/07/2018 04:55

I don’t see any reason not to means test the fee, though.

Battleax · 05/07/2018 04:55

You’re quite right OP. As long as we have the EA we need some kind of mechanism to properly certify sex changes.

A few hundred pounds and/or a moderate length form is in line with, or more lenient than, immigration procedures, divorce, PIP, business registration etc etc and more dramatic than any of those.

Pratchet · 05/07/2018 04:51

It's impossible to change sex and the law acknowledges this.

Anyway, i have heard one transitioned male say it was humiliating for h** wife to be interviewed.

Pratchet · 05/07/2018 04:49

'Detransitioners', SarahAr? Suddenly they exist?

Snappity · 05/07/2018 04:38

I fell like I must be missing something, because surely we aren't going through the whole consultation process - and hostile debate on self-ID - because some trans people don't want to fill out a lengthy form and pay a few hundred quid (or fill out a form to apply for a fee remission)?

The present process requires a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from one of about 40 doctors only. (The list slightly longer than that but includes people who have retired and people like endocrinologists who aren't in the business of diagnosing gender dysphoria.) If you go through the NHS system you will generate the right paperwork and just need to pay £80 to get a copy. There are concerns that is a problem for anyone on benefits.

But the bigger problem is that if people don't go through the NHS system, they don't build up a file with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria by one of the legally prescribed doctors. That's particularly the case for immigrants and ex-pats but there are others.

Then there is the problem that gender dysphoria doesn't mean now what it meant in 2004 because the medical community has changed the definition. In the next round of changes, they may well entirely remove "gender dysphoria" from the lists of definitions and call it something else, as well as changing the definition.

Then there is the problem of intersex people. A diagnosis of gender dysphoria is impossible if one is intersex. All sorts of problems there.

Then there are things like the evidence one has to provide. How can one provide utility bills in the new name if one lives with parents? If you live in Britain but are not a British Citizen, you may not be able to changed your passport so you cannot show that evidence.

Then the reports have to detail surgery. So how can a psychiatrist / psychologist - necessary to give the diagnosis of gender dysphoria - then become an expert on the surgeries someone has had? And if someone doesn't want surgery, this is presently allowed but there are huge practical issues too.

The surprise really is that somehow nearly 5,000 people have fought their way through a maze of contradictions and impossible demands. That's almost exactly the same number as have climbed Everest which sort of sets the difficult in context. There are grounds for suggesting that Self-ID isn't the answer but the present system is seriously broken and absolutely needs to change. It is also very expensive for the Government to administer so they will want a simplification to save public money.

SarahAr · 05/07/2018 00:07

some trans people don't want to fill out a lengthy form and pay a few hundred quid

Check your privilege.

Spousal veto, historic transitioners, detransistioners, intersex people, and people who through their social economic background don't have the money to obtain multiple medical reports (these are expensive and not free) and don't have the background to navigate an extensive quasi-legal process, people whose application has been turned down due to a judicial mistake - there is no appeals process for the current system (except theoretically judicial review)

Human rights should be available to all - not just white middle class people.

loveyouradvice · 04/07/2018 23:37

I agree... the reality is that it broadens the number of people who can get a GRC who would be ineligible at the moment - because they don't qualify as being gender dysphoric through a medic's eyes....

So basically anyone who wants one can have one.....whoever fancies being a woman can be....

Swipe left for the next trending thread