Please can someone explain why the GRC process needs to be simpler?

Yes the whole thing should be repealed. Keep it for the 5000 or so that have done the GRC thing. Stop changing documentation . As everyone is pretty much recognisable as their original birth sex, they can still call themselves why they like and dress however they want and the rest of us can be tolerant to a point, but not beyond where men try to access women's protected situations. The deed poll thing needs looking at too as this and the GRC are furthering deception fraud and worse.the whole process if there is to be one should be tightened up tothe poit where it is really not worth pursuing . When crimes are committed the statistics should not be given as fantasy gender but as biological birth sex.

Well, at least at the beginning, Snap put forward one of the more articulate defences of this nonsence that I’ve read in here. And that says a lot about the status of that argument.

If people have been changing sex for decades, how many:
a - Men who 'became' women have gestated a baby?
b - Women who 'became' men provided sperm for a woman to gestate a baby?

If the answer is 'none' - then the project failed.

Thus the GRA needs to be repealed as it turns out - nobody did actually change sex after all.

I checked my privilege out of the library.

Oh, wait, that was a book. Sorry, I got excited over nothing.

Funny thing, I read somewhere that it is not biologically possible to change sex. Actually it was quite a lot of places. Hrmmmm. Are all facts transphobic?

'Check your privilege'. SarahAr thanks for that, I actually laughed out loud on the train.

Thinking that obtaining a document means one has changed sex is to fetishize that document. I don't mean via a sexual fetish (although of course this can be an aspect of cross dressing). I mean fetishize in the traditional sense.

Fetish
An inanimate object worshipped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fetish

The idea that a document has any bearing whatsoever on one's sex (remember that sex is shorthand for reproductive sex) is quite clearly to fetishize that document and consider it to have magical powers. And perhaps even to be inhabited by a spirit (the female essence).

I'm of the opinion that this document has no place in modern law. We no longer base our laws on religious beliefs or superstitions. When the GRC was created, our legal system created a fetish (of the type defined above by the Oxford Dictionary). Not their best idea.

They are male but we should call them women because we should. It's really evil of transactivists to take that respect and decency that intersex people need and deserve, and shoehorn it into a screaming tantrum that any regular bloke should be called a woman just on his say-so.

I cannot believe that 'blind canal,' 'women might abuse the system' Snappity is still here. GF indeed.

Transgender is not intersex, and intersex people hate being used in these arguments.

I agree, but....

They are genetically male, sex is determined at the point of conception.

The OP in question was extremely annoyed when a GC poster (really rudely IMO) called her man. She had been brought up as female, identified as female, looked female. And the way she carried herself was completely female. So for anyone to call her a man, which according to GC thinking she is, was wrong (not to mention unkind).

When determining what makes a man / woman it’s necessary to go beyond strictly chromosomes.

"So anyway my point is - if you can be female with XY then what is it that makes a man? Testosterone? Socialisation based on external genitalia and appearance."

They are genetically male, sex is determined at the point of conception.

Transgender is not intersex, and intersex people hate being used in these arguments.

I can’t walk unaided, but I’ll happily put with the endless bureaucracy involved in proving it because the alternative- able bodied people appropriating disabled people’s facilities via self ID - is unacceptable. Not only unacceptable to me personally, but unacceptable in a civilised society.

Quite. Same boat for that.

Multiple medical staff write me proof of my disability yearly or so, so that I can prove I am still disabled, despite not actually having any chance of getting any better. Now, I am not happy to put up with this at the regularity it is, and especially not when my condition will only ever get worse which is also year upon year put down in my medical proof (and disregarded, by a jobcentre decision maker with no medical experience...in order to take my living away from me, which tends to result in a long tribunal wait, followed by a backpayment), not better, however I do understand the need for the tests needed to prove my disability.

If there was just open access for everyone for PIP and such, they could not exist at all and people like me would have to live on the pittance that is JSA, regardless of any extra costs my disability gives me.

A male taking "female" hormones does not = turning into a female. It turns them into a male taking "female hormones" which disrupts the standard male-bodied hormonal functions.

After reading the “I’m intersex AMA” thread I see it slightly differently.

The OP had been born with XY chromosomes but the Y chromosome had failed to properly develop testes and therefore produce testosterone.

Having entirely female looking genitalia and looking completely female to the outside world, she was raised and socialised as a female and is 100% woman. She said that no one ever sees her as anything other than female. In fact it wasn’t till she didn’t go through puberty that it was discovered.

So anyway my point is - if you can be female with XY then what is it that makes a man? Testosterone? Socialisation based on external genitalia and appearance.

Doesn’t stop my opposition to self id but it has made me think that hormones and socialisation together count for a lot.

Snappity

Humans can and do change biological sex. They don't change chromosomal sex but that is merely one attribute of biological sex.

Hmmm. I'm really struggling to understand these other attributes of biological sex that can be truly changed from male to female, or the other way round (as opposed to taking on the stereotypes of gender that tend to be attached to those of certain biological sexes).

If I sit down and copy a Constable painting, I haven't created a Constable painting, I've created a copy of a Constable painting.

An expert surgeon skinning and inverting a penis to make it look like a small part of the complex female anatomy does not = creating a female vagina.

A male taking "female" hormones does not = turning into a female. It turns them into a male taking "female hormones" which disrupts the standard male-bodied hormonal functions.

A female having their breasts removed does not = turning into a male. They are a female with a mastectomy.

What are these biological attributes that can truly be changed by surgery or hormones that suddenly turn you from one sex to another?

Biology, not bigotry.

Unless we all close our eyes and wish really, really hard?

lol
They dont really want to become women shhh because then no one would do what they say

Ooh, love it Pratchet, but do they have the magic chromosome-changing ingredient that mine will have?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailywire.com/news/15418/british-schools-want-teachers-give-transgender-amanda-prestigiacomo%3famp

Too late peak

Some pink cakes for the TRA who beat Maria Maclachlan

Just think you could have the blue cake and eat the pink cake. Before eating the blue cake and all the other pink people's cakes.

Now there is a business idea. Gender reveal cakes containing some sort of signal to the body to begin the process of changing biological sex.

How would your pituitary gland know you had got a certificate for instance?

Gender reveal cake to announce it prehaps?

Yeah, Snappity biological sex IS chromosomal sex. Saying you can’t change chromosomal sex but you can change biological sex makes you sound like an imbecile. Changing biological sex would involve a chemical/physical process if it were possible. How on earth you think that the acquisition of a certificate can have an impact on your physical body is beyond me. You can’t honestly believe that. How would your pituitary gland know you had got a certificate for instance?

"I honestly think MNHQ are allowing this poster to be a GF."

They're clearly allowing this with regards to a few people. They've allowed homophobic posts to remain.

They want this section of the forum and/or the posters gone.