Can we talk about the mental impact of being told the definition of woman is changing?

Here's a thread load of women injured by horrific male violence. So a reasonable response would be to express horror at their injuries, plus offer empathy and support.

What happens here on FWR? There's a gang of entitled men appear to put the boot in.

Says a lot about them - it's what lowlife's do

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

I think you're onto something there Red - the feeling of revulsion - I got it when I went on Second Life and I get it looking at TRA images. It always astonishes me that any woman doesn't get it when doing the same.

A heartfelt support thread by women, then...
The loud stomping of size 11 pumps and the stench of TRA piss-marking all over the place.

You cannot help yourselves, can you?
GTFO women's spaces. You do not belong. You just proved it. Again.

*TRAs and allies+

Don't you think it's a little bit oppressive to tell women with anxiety and PTSD exacerbated by rampant misogyny of well, dismissing women's feelings and rights, to STFU because trans people might hear?

Thanks for linking esmew! Saved me doing so.

Yes a lot of vulnerable women on these boards. You can generally spot them because they're tougher than all hell and are handling situations that would drive many people under. Try talking to them. They don't want infantilising, patronising or 'safe spaces' from HQ, and generally don't appreciate people assuming they aren't perfectly competent to think for themselves and make their own decisions about what they do online. That kind of paternalist bullshit doesn't help anyone.

Oh and that tweet, mentioning the poor vulnerable (stupid, unable to think for themselves, impressionable with no capacity for critical thought or intelligence) women who are being so upset by all the lies they're being fed while being so uninformed … .bollocks. I haven't found any woman yet on FWR who is that limp a lettuce, and they're very well informed, that's the whole point of what these threads do.

The evidence discussed here comes direct from the TRA lobby

Discussing the evidence and its impact is neither a problem nor in any way wrong or offensive. Mentioning the evidence is not a problem, nor in any way wrong or offensive - no woman has a duty to suppress negative propaganda for trans people at the cost of her own interests and feelings. The evidence itself is the problem. Like all the tweets about cuntscum and diaf and punch a terf and cotton ceiling ad nauseum ad nauseum. That might be the major problem that needs addressing.

I'm sorry esmew the individual whose tweet you have linked to has such a precarious mental state that they subscribe to a mass list which blocks 30,000 people, of whom I am one, despite the fact that we have never interacted.

So I'm afraid I am unable to cmment on what they've said.

And you think that's helpful, do you, esme?

There seems to be a lot of vulnerable women on these boards...... mumsnet needs to get it's house in order.

twitter.com/joss_prior/status/1023514858770366464

I've seen two transactivists and one handmaiden complaining about this thread on Twitter. The handmaiden thought trans people shouldn't even have to read about women's mental distress caused by the misogyny around the trans debate. How terrible we are for sharing our feelings.

Massive double standard.

Very characteristic behaviour of perpetrators of abuse, incidentally. A quick read on the relationships board finds this everywhere.

The perpetrator of abuse sees themselves as more special, more deserving, more vulnerable, more justified, has entitlement to standards of treatment, service, stuff and respect, and defends that entitlement fiercely. They see their victim as certainly not entitled to equal treatment, equal consideration, equal service and stuff, as less human than them, and heaven help their victim if they fail to provide required service to the perpetrator or tread on the perpetrator's perceived entitlements.

Plus ca change.

It does bring home the rather terrifying lack of empathy. It takes quite a special person to barrel into a thread where people are sharing their difficulties and tell them they're a bunch of crybabies.

Yes. And, as ever, all these tactics are ultimately self-defeating. The lurkers are reading and watching.

Shame for them that people are going to keep doing it anyway, eh?

So for some people (like sarah and vicky above), the answer to the title question of this thread is clearly "no, you can't".

That sounds right AAK.

It does bring home the rather terrifying lack of empathy. It takes quite a special person to barrel into a thread where people are sharing their difficulties and tell them they're a bunch of crybabies.

It's particularly galling in light of the fact that we're repeatedly told that the fragility of trans people's mental health is such that we must guard our langugage and our very thoughts AT ALL TIMES because of the carnage a misplaced "he" can wreak.

Massive double standard.

My guess is that they noticed that people here really don't appreciate trolling and me-railing on support threads and have thus decided that targeting those threads is the best way to get people to say something bannable.

It is tiresome being told by men what it means to be a woman.
It is tiresome being told by men not to use certain words and terms because it excludes them.
It is tiresome being told by men that our fears and concerns are not real and don't matter but theirs are and do.
It is tiresome being told by men that I am a bigot when I am nothing of the sort.

I try to manage my involvement so I don't get too sucked in. I avoid the worst of the activists - I refuse to watch Riley's videos any more as they just make me cross!

I adorable you all. You give me hope.

You are awesome bewilderness

I have been a defender in the war on women for many years.
I have seen one after another of the gathering places for women destroyed or disbanded in both the material world and cyberspace by authoritarian asshats.
I will likely be gone when the misogynists come to full power, if they are not stopped. That is why I can't stop entirely and only take a mental health break from time to time.

To answer the original question - I have experienced a dip in my MH. I was baffled as to why initially. But it is the nagging anxiety about what is happening to women's rights and children's safeguarding that is getting to me.

I am not overly worried on my own behalf. But desperately worried about the world my kids, particularly my daughter, are growing up into.

Plus, I have a feeling of betrayal. I grew up thinking I was an equal, and that everyone saw me (a female) as an equal - and the only ones that didn't were dinosaurs stuck in the past. Discovering that wasn't the case and that a significant number of the males I interacted with may have resented me has turned my past on its head. And that is disturbing and disorientating.

transwidow.wordpress.com/2016/01/25/the-masculinity-of-mtf-transition/