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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Important debate in Westminster this afternoon about sexual exploitation and prostitution websites and

61 replies

R0wantrees · 04/07/2018 14:11

THis was discussed on Woman's Hour this morning in an interview with Sarah Champion:
'As sex work moves online, are prostitution websites enabling a growth in exploitation and trafficking? Sarah Champion MP tells us why she believes UK legislation needs to be radically overhauled to keep pace with the changing face of prostitution'

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b85m8r

"Let’s criminalise the men buying sex, and spare the women they exploit
Sophie Walker (WEP)
A new report lays bare the brutal realities of life for sex workers in Britain. The law must now change to protect them"

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/21/british-sex-trade-women

Important debate in Westminster this afternoon about sexual exploitation and prostitution websites and
OP posts:
Brazenhussy0 · 04/07/2018 20:52

The Nordic model protects women

  • not true

decriminalisation results in super sized brothels and increased trafficking

  • also not true (you may be thinking of the German super-brothels which have come about as a result of legalisation not decriminalisation.)

We have to look at all women who end up in the sex trade, not just the ones who are happy with their choice.

  • We consistently only ever look at the vulnerable women (addicts, alcoholics etc.) who end up in the sex industry. The rest of us are virtually unheard, mostly because we are plodding along just fine so never come into contact with charities or support workers. The majority of us are actually under-represented precisely because we are doing just fine as we are.

There should of course be support to ensure that women have a way to leave the sex industry, if they want to. But the sledgehammer approach being put forward by Champion will not help vulnerable women in any way. It'll just make things worse.
She essentially wants to rip the rug out from underneath the very people she is claiming she wants to help.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 04/07/2018 20:50

It's a pipeline that pumps women and girls in, that is only challenged by the Nordic model. It puts the needs of most women at the forefront.

BettyDuMonde · 04/07/2018 20:47

The reviews on punternet are terrifying:

nordicmodelnow.org/myths-about-prostitution/myth-punters-care-about-the-women-they-buy/

The problem with decriminalisation is it does nothing to protect the unseen victims of the sex buying trade - the oblivious wives and girlfriends of Johns.

Nordic model is best for all.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 04/07/2018 20:37

Interesting link Brazen.

So many women and girls who end up in prostitution are unheard though. The Nordic model protects women, decriminalisation results in super sized brothels and increased trafficking, that's not good. We have to look at all women who end up in the sex trade, not just the ones who are happy with their choice.

Brazenhussy0 · 04/07/2018 20:16

Her actions are certainly implying that she does, Lumpy. Removing our ability to advertise online would give us no other option than to return to the streets or to use the 'services' of pimps.
For a lot of us, websites like Adultwork let us screen clients more effectively and keep us significantly safer than we would otherwise be. They give us the option to work independently and, most importantly, keep us off street corners (where we are much more likely to be raped, assaulted or murdered.)

She is presumably not stupid and has one would hope listened to what active, current prostitutes have to say, so I can only conclude that she does want that outcome.

Decriminalisation is still the best model for us. Certainly superior to the Nordic Model at least .
If you have the time and are genuinely interested in the facts around decriminalisation, this report will be useful reading - prostitutescollective.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Online-Symposium-Report.pdf

LumpySpacedPrincess · 04/07/2018 20:02

I am sure she doesn't want that at all Brazen.

If you look at countries that have decriminalised sex work trafficking is up to suit the higher demand. Women in these countries are treated worse as misogyny increases. The only people making any money are the pimps and the violence against the women in the brothels is still high.

Brazenhussy0 · 04/07/2018 19:12

Ah yes, because removing the websites we advertise on (where we can leave feedback for clients and share information with each other) is totally going to make us safer Hmm

Again, this is moral ideology dressed up as 'protecting vulnerable women' whilst, in reality, throwing them under the big authoritarian bus.
Women like Champion would rather see us pushed back on to the streets or into the hands of pimps/brothel owners than let us have the ability to work more safely for ourselves and indoors, apparently.

BelleHathor · 04/07/2018 18:38

Well a good thing that Trump did was sign the FOSTA bill into law earlier this year leading to the end of backpages.com and similar sites. It was a revelation to see how quickly some subreddits were banned from reddit , where services were offered seeing as website owners were now liable. Funny how the sites could do that if they had no idea of what was being sold and likely knew that a lot of people were trafficked. Even worse were all the woke bros decrying the law as sex negative, instead of focusing on the women Sad

53rdWay · 04/07/2018 16:27

I see Jess Phillips has been reading out reviews from sex-buyer websites. Makes the point more powerfully than any NUS blather about prostitution being ‘the same as any other form of labour’ could.

R0wantrees · 04/07/2018 14:48

NUS briefing:
'In 2016, NUS worked with ECP and SWARM to conduct the first piece of research of its kind into the experiences of student sex workers.
From the NUS Student Sex Work Survey, we found that student sex workers say they are not getting the help they need. Since then,
policy has passed through the NUS LGBT+1 Women’s2 and Trans3 Campaigns to continue our commitment of solidarity and support, and to further the work that we do for student sex workers.

Our survey shows, a large proportion of student sex workers (and perhaps sex workers in general) are from marginalised backgrounds or are vulnerable. 71% of respondents identified as women, and 17% identified as non-binary.
Over 70% of respondents identified as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Queer. Over 55% described themselves as having a disability. And 14% were International Students (7% from within the EU, and 7% outside of the EU). (continues)

Decriminalization
NUS supports the movement for the decriminalisation of sex work. We believe that sex work is work, the same as any other form
of labour. Therefore sex workers should receive the same rights and employment. Currently in the UK, whilst sex work itself is not illegal,
there are a number of laws that criminalise the activities around it. These depend on region and nation, but throughout it is still highly
stigmatised, and many forms of engaging in sex work are socially and legally discriminated against.

We have even seen movement in wider politics, with the leader of the Labour Party coming out in support of decriminalisation in 2016."

Embedded link re Jeremy Corbyn's support

nusdigital.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document/documents/40809/Student_Sex_Worker_Briefing_2018.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJKEA56ZWKFU6MHNQ&Expires=1530721626&Signature=EXUC0X8FYEQipNldEo9zOd2gxSg%3D

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 04/07/2018 14:21

context of opposition:

"Calls for "prostitution websites" to be banned in England and Wales will be made at a House of Commons debate.

A cross-party group of MPs says the owners of such sites "directly and knowingly" profit from sex-trafficking and wants the Home Office to intervene.

The group adds that a small number of sites "dominate the marketplace" and have named two in particular: Vivastreet and Adultwork.

But sex-worker-rights campaigners say the proposal would be "a disaster".

Three organisations - the Sex Worker Advocacy and Resistance Movement (Swarm), the English Collective of Prostitutes (ECP), and the xTalk collective - are planning a demonstration outside Parliament at the time of this Wednesday's debate to protest against the suggested law change."

www.bbc.com/news/technology-44685056

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