Alternative Definitions of 'Woman'?

What people sometimes don't realise with the law is that is does not rely on 'people just know what that means'. The law has to be very clear with little wriggle room for interpretation. It might seem overkill sometimes but it is necessary as it provides clarity for those interpreting the law.

Mr Howls and I were discussing the plastic bag charge and what legally counts as a plastic bag (yes, it is a laugh riot in our house in the evening). For something to be legally recognized as a disposable plastic bag it has to meet three separate, measurable criteria. That's a flipping bag!!

I can't believe women may end up with less legal protection than plastic bags!

Offered I think you are right that trans needs to be defined but again there is a social and legal definition to consider the two do not need to be the complete same thing. but the question is does the legal definition come from the social definition and how much is it fixed to that definition and how much can it vary.

also I have fixed my auto correct on my phone no more full. stops lol

*Jygrant,
*
If the 'social' concept of woman is neither of those, what else could it be? Any suggestions?

No, no idea. I just found this one interesting as I had never come across it. Having women equal gender, female equal biology, but then the definition of woman falls down, so the split doesn't work.

When talking about gender stereotypes I always use words feminine and masculine. Women and female as biology as far as I am concerned. Like most people. I really think we need to stick to this one as society as it makes for most concise legislation.

Why do I suddenly have to do that? We all know what trans means

I thought i knew what woman meant ..apparently ive had that wrong for over 40 years

So, in a legal context the word woman unambiguously can be taken to mean, 'human female who has reached the age of legal adulthood ' ( there's probably a neater way to formulate it).

Why do I suddenly have to do that?

Because the whole thread is basically about circular definitions.

You don't want to say sexist stereotypes. Why not just admit it?

If you can’t answer this question clearly then it cannot be used in legislation because the definition of words in legislation matters.

given it is central to your definition of woman I am asking you how you define ‘trans’.

YY.

I’m asking you to explain what you mean by ‘trans’ in your definition.

The fact that the age of majority differs by culture is irrelevant as is the fact that what is considered masculine/feminine in each culture differs.

Within each culture ‘adult’ is the age of majority (this is true no matter what particular age is considered the age of majority) and I believe ‘trans’ is relative to standards of feminity/masculinity in each culture.

There are different definitions of what trans actually means though (to what extent not conforming to gendered expectations puts someone in the ‘trans’ category) so, given it is central to your definition of woman I am asking you how you define ‘trans’.

Why do I suddenly have to do that? We all know what trans means.

No we don't. Why can't you answer a simple question? Any definition you like, just so we understand where you are coming from.

No, seriously glitched, there seem to be many and various interpretations of what 'trans' means. In the old days, we understood fairly well what 'transsexual' and 'transvestite' meant. Using these old fashioned terms in an attempt at clarity, a male transsexual might well fit into a 'social' redefinition of 'woman' , but do you really think a male transvestite would? Yet now, both of these (and more) come under the 'trans umbrella'.

My 15-year-old identifies as an adult. Is he an adult?

Glitch: if you say a woman is an adult human female, you need to know what female means. Do you know what female means.

(including transadults)

Adult - Fully grown or developed.

Why do I suddenly have to do that? We all know what trans means.

I haven't asked you to define what 'adult' means. That's a definition itself that varies from country to country.

Can you define adult?

Re any new definition of ‘woman’ designed to ‘include’ it’s really basic stuff to explain who, out of the group previously not considered to be women, will now be included in the group classification called ‘woman’ and why they should be included in a group classification they have not been included in before.

No, not at all.

If a definition of woman is - adult female human and transwoman then you have to explain what you mean by trans...

No-one is shifting the goalposts, if laws are being changed then this is really important.

Likewise re ‘identifies as a woman’ - it needs to be explained and defined otherwise it the laws won’t actually work.

Oh I read it. Lol.

Can you repeat: I missed it

I presented a perfectly valid definition as requested by OP.

Now you're all trying to shift the goal posts by pretending you don't know what trans means.