Is it time to do away with indecent exposure as a crime?

Would you allow your young daughter to go swimming if you thought she may be exposed to male genitalia in the changing rooms?

I know I wouldn't.

Women's lives will be restricted as we try to protect our daughters. This is what trans legislation will achieve.

If it was true then, would it not still be true now?

It was true then, always has been true and still is true.

Sorry , spellcheck boundaries

This is getting sidelined folks. Don’t engage.

I repeat, do we want to normalise this?? Penis in women and girls changing room??
How on earth can we educate and look after our children, teach them appropriate bounties with a complete double think around this issue.

In Scotland it is sexual exposure and is exposing genitals in a sexual manner, without consent, to obtain sexual gratification or to humiliate, distress or alarm the other person. Sex/gender isn't mentioned.

But in a female dressing area where you may be entitled to be naked how do you tell the motives of the person.

Yes, good point, I was distracted by all the posters talking about men flashing them in public.
But still, in the following scenario: "Some trans woman could come up behind my daughter at the local swimming pool tomorrow and waggle his erect dick at her just the same."
If a male man was to waggle his erect dick at a male man, in the male man's changing room, would that not be indecent exposure? Or something else.

A penis doesn't need to be erect for indecent exposure.

Surely it all depends on the intent if it's a crime or not?

Deydodo. I wouldn't have thought it mattered. So in the street if they go about flashing it would be a crime regardless of who they were flashing to.

But in a female dressing area where you may be entitled to be naked how do you tell the motives of the person.

Is it still indecent exposure if it's between the same sex?
Everyone is worried a man will wave his erect penis at you and it won't be indecent exposure, because he's a woman .
But if a man was to wave his erect penis at another man, wouldn't that be indecent exposure anyway?
My point is, does the sex (or gender) of the flasher or flashee, prevent it being indecent exposure?

Is this piece by a naturist just a one-off or part of a wider approach? How to tell a flasher from a naturist when it's too hot for dirty macs?

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2018/jul/04/all-beaches-technically-naturist-beaches-a-guide-to-nude-sunbathing

Theresa May said it was important to listen to the concerns of people who wanted single sex changing rooms when cornered by a male journalist at the LGBT event for GRA launch.
The spin is ridiculous

Hotrocker apologies, I wasn't trying to derail. I just don't think we should minimise the crime if perpetrated by a women by assuming that it has no impact on boys. Anyone flashing any child for their own kicks regardless of sex is a danger and should be treated as such.

Oh yes I forgot to say, what about women who for religious reasons would effectively be totally excluded.

Oh hang it. They need to be” educated “ according to Labours women officer LM.

Moss, quite. The thing about serial offending I imagine in part, is that it’s addictive and gives you a rush. So Steve who is a bit of a perv and likes watching violent porn can change with women and girls and rather enjoys it, but what’s next? What about when he decides that this thrill isn’t quite enough? Is he going to ignore his impulses because he knows anything else is a crime?
It feels to me like they are trying to create safe spaces for men to offend. Honestly it really just does boil down to that.

Lichtie, quite apart from the fact that I wasn’t excusing anybody doing it, a teacher having sex with a minor is a different crime, and against the law for both the same and different reasons, e.g. having sex with a minor is against the law, a teacher having sex with a minor is against safeguarding guidelines, is exploitative because of the power imbalance, and breaks the contract between teacher and pupil.
I’m not quite sure why you threw this one in, because nobody is talking about this. It’s almost like you’re intentionally trying to derail.
Anyway, sorry to everyone else for taking up space with this. Buffers applied.

If an offenders can get away with indecent exposure in a changing room then of course they will start to ‘push the boundaries’ to their offending....

The insanity of this and double think beggars belief. I have been flashed at a few times. The first time as a 10 year old and then at 15. Both occasions where very frightening and icky.

It is not appropriate to normalise penis in female spaces where women are changing and naked. This is simply pushing women’s boundaries, until we have none.

How can we teach out daughters about safety when there is a double message that completely contradicts itself.

It is 100% appropriate for women , girls to remove them selves as fast as possible from the close vicinity ( hopeful it is possible) of a pensis, unless they have actively chosen to be there. This is not transphobic, it is about safely.

It is unfortunately based on the real experience of women.

It’s bad enough that we get bombarded with unsolicited dick picks on social media, dating sites, Snapchat etc.

Now we are supposed to just roll over and accept it in our private spaces.

Again I say, it is not acceptable to normalise thus.

also to say, that men and boys have a right to privacy too when in changing rooms.

I also don’t want, when I’m trying to clean up mess from my period . Yes it happens. Being a woman is a messy, smelly business sometimes.

Trans rights matter, but not when they totally centre the trans rights at the expense of everyone else.

It makes me so mad that in the name of avoid hurting peoples feelings I am reduced to referring to genitalia. This is dehumanising for all of us.

My hope is that there can be a calm debate about how to manage this. And trans have safe spaces too.

When I was running in the countryside one Sunday afternoon I passed a car in a layby with a man standing next to the hedge facing away from the road - I assumed he was having a pee. When he heard me approach he turned around and exposed himself with an erection and a huge smile on his face. I was terrified.

When I was at school in the 80s we had a visit from a WPC,
Giving safety advice?

She talked about flashers and told us, ' even if you are not bothered or even find it funny, tell your mates and have a good laugh about it, but then you must report it to the police because these men often go on to commit sexual assault.'

If it was true then, would it not still be true now?

Floorplan I was worrying about the same. My (even younger) dd was also a victim of indecent exposure. Likewise, it was a horrible experience for her. I can’t help but think that if it had happened in a changing room my dd would have been a lot more vulnerable (possibly naked), but the twat in question could have carried on for longer and got away with it by simply saying ‘I am a woman’. If a man is allowed into woman’s changing rooms under any guise then there is no way to prove indecent exposure and you couldn’t even risk complaining for fear or being pursued for a ‘hate crime’. How can people not see this!!!

Hotrocker, would the same not apply to female teacher and male teacher having sex with pupils? The 15 year old boy would likely brag about it but it doesn't make what the female teacher did any more right.

Consider this, two 15 year old girls walking home from school, and a man they don’t know flashes his cock at them. Now I can’t speak for every 15 year- old girl in the country, but I have a reasonable belief that they would be upset and frightened by this.
Switch it around, two 15 year old boys walking home from school and a woman they don’t know flashes her breasts at them. Now again, I can’t speak for every 15 year old boy in the country, but I imagine their reactions might range from amusement, to arousal, to bragging to their mates about what happened.
No discrepancy there then at all, in either the numbers of each sex perpetrating this crime or the impact of this crime dependent on the sex of the victim.

Surely it will be de facto decriminalisation if this nonsensical law is passed. Legally some women will have a penis, they do now I suppose just that many more will after the amendments are passed into law, those 'women' will be in our changing rooms along with their dicks. We will have to tolerate it. Boundaries gone. Men not claiming to be women might still get done for it. Does Mrs May assume transwomen in her space will be dickless and/or gay do we know?

Indecent exposure is not a gendered crime though both men and woman can commit it. Though usually men do so

In my 50+ years on this planet I've personally known numerous women/girls who have been flashed by men and the majority were very upset by it. I can only recall one instance of female flashing at male. That was when a couple of young women flashed their boobs at me and my mates in the back of an army truck. We didn't feel threatened, intimidated or fearful it might escalate to sexual assault. So not only is it very much a gendered crime in terms of it being predominantly committed by men, it's also gendered in the sense that the impact it has on men, on the very rare occassions they are targeted, is infinitely less than it is on female victims.