Let's all pretend that transwomen are women

32 replies

Bi11yOneMate · 03/07/2018 21:49

Because otherwise some people's fragile sense of self will break.
That's the bottom line isn't it?

And they want to be treated as if they are women. But we are pretending they really ARE women so it can't be AS IF they are women.

When actually most women just want to be treated like a human. With the same courtesies and respect and rights as the other half of the population. There are a few situations where, due to biology, women need special provisions - space/facilities/dignity in dealing with menstruation, breastfeeding, childbirth.
Transwomen don't need that, will not have spent teen years anticipating or learning to deal with that. And unless they are really out of touch with reality can never expect to. And therefore is it any surprise that women may feel uncomfortable with transwomen around when dealing with the specifics of biology - menstruation/breastfeeding/childbirth/menopause.

Now if the transwomen is very low key and not directly involved in care - in the "just want to pee and leave" camp, then a lot of women don't make a fuss.
But lots still care.

Why is that so hard?

OP posts:

heresyandwitchcraft · 03/07/2018 22:48

Trans women are trans women. I am in favour of figuring out the best way forward for trans rights, but not at the expense of the definitions of man and woman. However, I feel I am being asked to pretend the differences between those born male and those born female don't exist when I hear the mantra "trans women are women."
Let's be proud of the "trans" part, not erase it. Can natal females become "trans women"? If the answer is no, then the two groups clearly aren't exactly the same, even under trans ideology.

Original poster

Bi11yOneMate · 03/07/2018 22:48

JoanSummers - exactly. Unless you 100% pass as female you are never going to experience that all too familiar "second class" thing - like being the most experienced person present on "x" topic, but having your contribution ignored, but repeated by s male colleague 5 minutes later to much acclaim. And if you try to day you said it first it is seen as petty. Etc.
Personally treating someone as if they were female might mean having a laugh over your birth injuries or asking if anyone has tampon.as you've been caught out. That sort of thing. Or maybe not worrying so much about your toddler being "discreet" while breastfeeding.

OP posts:

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 03/07/2018 22:37

Is treating someone 'as if' they are a woman basically letting down your guard like you do when the person coming into your home, while you are alone, to read your meter is female and you don't brace yourself and appraise the nearest weapon to grab in case they attack you? That kind of thing?

LadyJaneGreyspen · 03/07/2018 22:36

I will treat all humans as humans because I am nice like that. i will treat all tables as tables because I do like a good table.
I will treat some chairs as tables too because well the chair next tome is a perfect height for my coffee cup.
But is that chair really a table? it has a coffee cup on it and magazines.
it is a chair passing as a table? Or is there something intrinsically table/chair about it ?
Does language matter? Are my hairy toes infact intrinsically hobbit? Are we all just one anyway?
Where is my coffee? is it on the table or the chair? the object that has my coffee cup on it ?

JoanSummers · 03/07/2018 22:25

I'm willing to treat male people who identify as women as women are treated under male supremacy if that is what they really want (even though I find that ethically challenging because I don't want to treat anyone inhumanely or as inferior, or be drawn into anyone's sub fetish) but I'm not willing to pretend they actually are women, lose my rights as a woman, collude in breaking other women's boundaries, etc.

But as I said, if some male people want me to treat them as women are treated, then sure I guess I can patronise and ignore them, put no value on their work and opinions, assume they are incapable of leading anything, judge them constantly on how they look and dress, expect them to do all the wifework and shitwork, support their having less pay and next to no political representation, ignore violence against them or claim they bring it on themselves because of how they nag/dress etc, call them by their dads/husbands surname and mis-title them regularly, and the rest of it. I can do it, but I'd rather not.

I don't think they have any real idea what they are actually demanding, but whatever.

Original poster

Bi11yOneMate · 03/07/2018 21:54

A discussion. For people to agree or disagree and say why. This is a chat board after all.

OP posts:

Yeaididthat · 03/07/2018 21:51

What are you wanting from this?

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