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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GRA consultation is live. Let's get reading

108 replies

Anlaf · 03/07/2018 16:05

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004

OP posts:
Anlaf · 03/07/2018 17:48

Sorry cross post Crone as am going in and out of signal.

The main document glossary is fairly clear, at least by the standards of these things.

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Ifonlyus · 03/07/2018 17:48

Janie143 Oh my oh my that easy read document is shocking . Noones gender is written on their birth certificate Their observed sex is. It is almost as if the word sex is too explicit to include

In yet further down the Easy Read document it gives a definition of gender dysphoria where sex is mentioned.

"Gender dysphoria is a medical condition where someone feels
that their gender is not the same as their sex."

BeUpStanding · 03/07/2018 17:45

Right! Time to get to work.

Writersblock2 · 03/07/2018 17:45

I’ve not looked yet but the bits above are worrying. If the consultation starts with the assumption that gender and sex are interchangeable then what basis do we have to start from? It’s wrong to begin with.

bd67th · 03/07/2018 17:45

I would recommend that discussions of possible responses take place somewhere other than here. You don't show your strategy to people who might use it against you. I guarantee that TRAs will use closed groups to discuss response strategies.

Anlaf · 03/07/2018 17:45

You are right beldaran

The easy read document says something very different to the much clearer main document.

Easy Read: When we are born, our parents say that we are either male or female. This is recorded on our birth certificate...Most people will be quite happy with being the gender that was written down when they were born.

Main document: Sex: Assigned by medical practitioners at birth based on physical characteristics. Sex can be either male or female.
Gender: Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender refers to socially constructed characteristics, and is often assumed from the sex people are registered as at birth

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OldCrone · 03/07/2018 17:42

beldaran
In the terminology section of the consultation document gender is defined:
Gender: Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender refers to socially constructed characteristics, and is often assumed from the sex people are registered as at birth.

But then with regard to the Gender Recognition Act 2004:
Following legal recognition, an individual is entitled to a new birth certificate issued in the acquired gender and in law the person’s gender becomes the acquired gender for all purposes.

So in a consultation where the meanings of 'sex' and 'gender' are so important, they conflate the two, and use both terms somewhat randomly.

Pratchet · 03/07/2018 17:41

Has Paris Lees been given a free pass on the News Channel?

BBCprotransbias

Janie143 · 03/07/2018 17:41

Sorry hit post by mistake If only sex wasn't used as shorthand for the act of sexual activity and only used as the dictionary definition maybe it would be a "rude" word

Jozxyqk · 03/07/2018 17:40

I know it's totally Victorian. It may as well say "sex is a dirty word".

Janie143 · 03/07/2018 17:35

Oh my oh my that easy read document is shocking . Noones gender is written on their birth certificate Their observed sex is. It is almost as if the word sex is too explicit to include. If only sex wasnt a

Jozxyqk · 03/07/2018 17:35

Thoughts on the factsheet so far...

Trans is a general term for people whose gender is different from the gender assigned to them at birth. For example, a trans man is someone that transitioned from woman to man. Trans people do not feel comfortable living as the gender that they were born with. They take serious, life-changing steps to change their gender permanently.

I was under the impression that there was no requirement for a trans person to make the change permanent? What about Gender Fluid people - or am I incorrect in thinking they fall under the Trans umbrella (if so, sincere apologies!)

How many trans people are there?
We don’t know. No robust data on the UK trans population exists. We tentatively estimate that there are approximately 200,000-500,000 trans people in the UK. The Office for National Statistics is researching whether and how to develop a population estimate.
Surely one way to begin to resolve this would be to introduce a new question to the census - "sex recorded at birth" - in addition to the gender noted at the time the census is completed.

beldaran · 03/07/2018 17:31

Can I ask a really stupid question (it sounds stupid in my head but I really need to ask it) but does that screenshot linked above by @madvixen really state that Gender is written down at birth and is recorded on a birth certificate NOT Sex? Is that from the official government guidance to accompany the consultation document?

If so, how are you supposed to reply to a consultation if the words are incorrect? Or have I read that wrong?

AnOpinion · 03/07/2018 17:21

^^

Anlaf · 03/07/2018 17:14

Given the attempt at clarity in the main document, the "Easy Read" version is a horrorshow of conflation of sex and gender

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721641/gra-consultation-easy-read.pdf

Most people will be quite happy with being the gender that was written down when they were born. Trans people may feel that they are a different gender to the one that was recorded at birth. They may not feel like either a male or a female.

Also I do not think the below is a responsible framing for an easy read consultation:

Being trans is not a mental illness. Trans people face many barriers to taking part in things. Some young trans people take their own life or harm themselves.

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OlennasWimple · 03/07/2018 17:10

Whilst I applaud the intention behind the Easy Read version, that is some appalling clip art

Snappity · 03/07/2018 17:08

The really sad thing is that, unlike Scotland, there is no consultation on changing the minimum age.

Pratchet · 03/07/2018 17:04

Placemarking. I've got RSA from ridiculous MN'ing today!

Anlaf · 03/07/2018 17:02

Very good shout Elle, we should use that in responses to the Q on other impacts.

I'm only scanning, but a lot of this seems to be consulting on removing evidence requirements, rather than reforming the panel process IYSWIM. E.g. Questions on removal of

Stat Dec
Evidence of living in acquired gender for a period of time
Diagnosis of gender dysphoria
Report detailing treatment received

As well as consulting on removal of:
Fee
Spousal consent

I thought the whole point was that the Gender Recognition Panel (GRP or "Panel" in the consultation)'s decisions could sometimes be unclear, and additional evidence unhelpfully requested giving delays, and they only meet infrequently etc.

Not that this consultation would consider removal of all evidence requirements (interestingly including the famous nefarious-man-repelling statutory declaration)

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OlennasWimple · 03/07/2018 16:55

Place marking for when I've read through the docs

Elletorro · 03/07/2018 16:38

No mention of all woman shortlists!

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 03/07/2018 16:30

Sex: Assigned by medical practitioners

Fuck. If they think medical practitioners go around waving the magical sex assignment wand, this consultation is already biased.

Anlaf · 03/07/2018 16:30

This thing has eaten my post but the single sex example above makes sense if you actually read it

I'd read "it would not be unlawful" as it would not be lawful"

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LangCleg · 03/07/2018 16:29

Oh, look! Options at the bottom:

Publish my response, including my name
Publish my response in anonymised form only
Do not publish my response

And to think some were suggesting we'd all be named (and shamed, with possible consequences) for daring to complete this consultation!

Well, that's odd. Almost like every other government consultation ever.

madvixen · 03/07/2018 16:24

Annoyed already and I'm only one paragraph in. I haven't even started on the actual consultation document yet.

GRA consultation is live.  Let's get reading