Penny Mordaunt MP: Trans women are women, that is the starting point for this consultation.

My MP is on board!

My MP is in contact. I am hopeful. The tide has turned. Politicians are listening and watching very carefully.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/labour-and-tories-finally-see-the-truth-about-the-gender-debate/

From the daily mail link...

Poll for Pink News finds just 18 per cent back gender designation without doctor

Very very interesting. Especially given I am sure its mostly transpeople who read the thing now given how homophobic they appear to be a lot of the time.

Interesting that as usual its all about transwomen. No mention of transmen. Also the LGBT survey done by the government said transmen experienced the worst quality of life or something, far worse than transwomen. Yet the focus is still on transwomen.

CuriousaboutSamphire

Penny Mordant is viewed by some prominant TRAs as being 'Minister for Equalities'. This may be simply shorthand.

Its worth sending your email also to Victoria Atkins MP who is specifically Minister for Women within the Women's & Equalities dept

www.gov.uk/government/people/victoria-atkins

Shit! I should have proof read that again!!!

Well, mne replied. He has read my comments, waht would I like him to do?

I replied

Hi XX,

Ideally I would like XX to apply some common sense as and when he is involved in anything to do with the GRA and Self ID proposals. Mainly not staying silent if and when there is repeat of the blanket "Transwomen are women, this is not up for debate" type statements. There is no need for one cohort of individuals to gain additional protections at the expense of any other cohort. It would also help if he questions the logic of the proposals, e.g. what rights are any trans individuals currently barred from, what health provision are they barred from, what can we not differentiate between natal and trans men and women? Most especially to question the difference between the real violence visited upon natal women by trans women, very recently, ad the 'literal violence' that gender critical people are accused of when trying to discuss the GRA and Self ID!

Our world is changing, rightly we are trying to accommodate those changes. But this year, 100 years of female suffrage etc, we seem to be forgetting the basic truths of life in the UK - we are all equal, we strive for that equality and protect that equality. That does not include silencing anyone's voice with statements such as that made by Ms Mordaunt. I hope, given that I have also emailed her with a similar email to my first to XX, that Ms Mordaunt might reconsider her stance and be more prepared to listen to the voices of women with as much attention as she is giving to transwomen.

Why else is she Minister for Women.... and Equalities?

Also, if Daniel was merely assigned the wrong gender at birth, why did anyone have a problem with him using the ladies' when he still believed he was male? Surely according to Stonewall etc, he has been a woman all along?

It would be good if Penny could clarify the following, which I don't understand:

If there is no meaningful difference between a 'cis'-woman and a trans woman, but there is a meaningful difference between a trans woman and a 'cis'-man, could you please explain when exactly this change takes place. Do you deem it to be from birth (i.e. that they were 'assigned the wrong gender') and have always been female? Or is it when they acquire a GRC? Or is it when they form an intention in their mind that they are a woman? Or is it when they communicate that to others? Which is it? You must surely be able to distinguish.

Let's say you have a man called Daniel. It is obvious to everyone that Daniel should not be in intimate spaces with females- he's a man fgs. It would not be appropriate at all- not necessarily because he would attack them (he's a really nice guy), but because it would make everyone uncomfortable. Daniel then realises that he identifies as trans, tells his friends about this, and starts using the name Danielle. At what precise point does it become blindingly obvious that Danielle should of course be using the female spaces? And that the women who were understood and supported for not wanting to share spaces with Daniel must now be labelled as hateful bigots for not wanting to share with Danielle? Because unless Penny can explain the exact moment when this happens and explain why it is that Daniel=hell no and Danielle=yes of course, this is illogical.

I think primogeniture is bullshit but I'm quite pleased they are trying to uphold it on the basis of sex. This gives us an advantage in exposing that the people responsible for this legislation do not believe their own falsehoods.

Brilliant post Materialreality

That's exactly nailed it.

I admit I'm a bit curious as to what the goal of the culty statements is, given how unsuccessful they've been in winning converts so far.

With never any actual argument. TWAW is not an argument, it is a statement of faith. Like a belief in God.

Great news! Because trans women ARE women.

No. Never can be and never will be. Don't you get bored posting the same trite inane sentence on every thread?

I think primogeniture is a key angle because it already means exceptions will be accepted (whether you think primogeniture is acceptable or not!).

I saw that, and tweeted about it. Tweet is being retweeted as well.

This is not good for the government. If the outcome is to push through self id, there can be challenges as this show bias towards a specific group instead of being independant. could mean political death for certain people if they now screw this up. And I do have to say, their own fault for not thinking before starting to just repeat what others say. And bad preparation as well.

Oh wow. I wonder if there could be a legal challenge.

twitter.com/ObjectUK/status/1014057434594398208

If she said that, then I guess. But I don't know that she did.

The starting point for the consultation surely is that Penny Mourdant is a proven liar.

Or maybe Mordaunt is tailoring her responses based on who she's talking to (and hoping inconsistencies won't be pointed out).

Maybe they said she said it, because they knew she'd be unable to deny it. You are Sherlock!

It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5913841/amp/Equalities-minister-vows-press-ahead-plans-make-changing-gender-easier.html?__twitter_impression=true

Their interview - did they make it up?