Nic Williams... R4

How can we expect a fair consultation process when the Equalities Minister is starting from the point that our concerns about gatekeeping and safeguarding are irrelevant because TWAW?

We can't. Which is why it's vital that we complete the consultation ourselves and persuade as many people as we can to do the same.

I might be here a bit less because I'm going on a massive IRL recruitment drive.

We have always said it's about both laws, the way they interact and the way culture changes in response to the law.

This. And as everyone already knows, despite endless attempts at misdirection hereabouts, the culture is already changing in ways that are deleterious for women.

And in any case, how do you maintain the integrity of single sex exemptions if you cannot check for birth certificate changes when employing someone, for example?

I will be suggesting that all job and volunteer vacancies using the single sex exemption are to use a version of DBS which will check for birth certificate changes. Privacy can only go so far.

Nic does a great job. I agree that she comes over more clearly in print and on the TV than in radio.

Would it be worth crowdfunding for specific radio media training? There's no reason why she should already have this skill set, being a scientist.

I wonder if it's because the PM promised the Earth at the Pink News awards last year - i.e. you created the expectation, you deal withtje fall out.

Interesting to hear Penny Mordaunt state so clearly that both trans and women’s viewpoints have equal validity/merit and reinforcing the retention of sex exemptions.

Yes Ereshkigal it's quite clear, unfortunately the government is only. Consulting on one though and not both or how they interact so when people go. On about single. Sex spaces they tend to look like they are talking about the wrong law when someone points out what the consultation is actually about

How can we expect a fair consultation process when the Equalities Minister is starting from the point that our concerns about gatekeeping and safeguarding are irrelevant because TWAW?

Interesting that the PM is going to introduce the consultation and not the equalities minister.
However they decide to streamline the process, I don’t think they’ll get away with fudging terminology. Hopefully sex, gender, man, women will be properly defined in the reworking.

We have always said it's about both laws, the way they interact and the way culture changes in response to the law.

This. It's quite clear what she means Bespin.

Pencils In Space I'm confused by your statement you wanted to talk about EA stuff do people are but this consultation is about GRA so when you do that people just think your not talking about the thing thst is being discussed

It's great that Nic got in that Stonewall have been lobbying to get rid of the single sex exceptions.

From the press release: Stonewall, at the same time as advising many organisations on how to implement the Equality Act, has been lobbying Government to get rid of the Equality Act provisions allowing single-sex exemptions.

More on now.

The thing is you have all made it about single sex spaces even though we have said this is the ea and not the gra the thing that is actually being debated we did keep telling you that it was not th issue so when people now keep asking you about it am afraid that's upto you I would and I'm sure Helen would rather discuss the the actual reform of the gra which there is need for real debate on

TRAs in an attempt to obfuscate, divide and conquer have been very busy saying 'aha! you said you wanted to talk about the GRA but here you are talking about the EA. You want to take away all our rights you bigot' - and then when that didn't work, we got 'hahaha you're stupid, you should be looking at the EA not the GRA'

We have always said it's about both laws, the way they interact and the way culture changes in response to the law.

FPFW also urge Ministers to “show leadership” by issuing clear guidance about how the equalities laws that allow for women-only spaces and services can be practically upheld and implemented.

"My heart was sinking but Nick Robinson’s questioning of the Trans Media Watch rep nailed it, e.g. women in a women only swim not wanting “women with penises” in with them; commenting about women campaigning for decades for single sex spaces having to fight for those rights through the courts all over again. Brilliant stuff Nic and Nick!"

^ Yes, yes to this ^

I think the public would have taken that away as the final word and it was a fair summary of the facts.

Lol barebellied! Currently attempting to work out what are the fewest extras I need to buy to make the small part of my wardrobe I can still fit into work for breastfeeding over the summer.

And I think I'll need just one more lansinoh tube to take me through which will add up to £30 in total...

BareBelliedSneetch

That is brilliant lol well played

I applaud Nick Robinson for his statement about "women with penises."

I’m confused by why there is a problem with the current process being arduous, costly and demeaning. That pretty much describes being a woman!

The thing is you have all made it about single sex spaces even though we have said this is the ea and not the gra the thing that is actually being debated we did keep telling you that it was not th issue so when people now keep asking you about it am afraid that's upto you I would and I'm sure Helen would rather discuss the the actual reform of the gra which there is need for real debate on

The trouble is that trying to convey all the potential threats to women and girls' rights and protections and in such a short interview is very difficult. Nick Robinson clearly gets it and put proper questions to both Nic and Helen Belcher.

In such short pieces it's essential to focus on real life examples that the general public can understand will affect them. To be very clear and concise.

I think Nic Williams' writing is excellent and extremely clear. Doing media interviews is a very different skill so maybe a bit of specific training would be of benefit?

I admire her so much for putting herself out there and in the line of fire.

I thought Nic Williams did well. Unfortunately it sounds bad to criticise the "hallowed" Stonewall. I think CG women ought to mention its vast funding and reserves and point out that they have been campaigning for this for years whenever possible.

We need to have better answers about it all being fine in Ireland and Denmak etc. Speak about things in Canada perhaps, but it's so difficult when the interviewee is not directing the questions. Once again the gender critical point of view is put first so there is no chance to rebut the other side's argument.

I think Nick Robinson does get it. He is right, once obtaining a GRC is as easy as filling in a form, Stonewall and every other similar organisation will be litigating the hell out of anyone who tries to keep a female space open. And those organisations will not be able to fund their defence.

Women have been well and truly kippered and I didn't know it was happening until recently. I can't bear to listen to Penny Mordaunt later.

I think she did well. Unfortunately Nick never went back to her after Helen Belcher said it was all to do with the EA not the GRA.

I cheered when Nick used the phrase “women with a penis”. Thank you Nick!

Although I agree with you DryHeave, whenever the discussion moves beyond the apparently trivial toilets and changing rooms to things like prisons, the "serious" aspects are easy to dismiss with "well yes, naturally, strong rules can apply there".

It's inherent to the arguments in this area that sands shift beneath people's feet as they try to make their arguments. This is why there's been such a big push for definitions to be turned into meaningless embraces-all-capture-nothing bundles of words. That together with the continual use of human shields - vulnerable kids, confused young people, people going through Hell with dysphoria - makes any clear anti-gender ideology argument very difficult to make

I think we need to make sure we don’t let the whole debate focus on single sex spaces. I think this is where pro self id people will want discussion to be focussed. Here, they can go on about legal protections.
We need to get it out there that this changes the definition of sex so it is determined by feelings as opposed to biology. We need language that distinguishes between one’s sex and one’s gender identity!

Although she is obviously talking complete sense, I don’t think Nic Williams comes across very well on radio. She sounds a bit unprepared and vaque.