Victoria Derbyshire show today - transgender children buying time by delaying puberty

James Kirkup from article linked previously:

"Dr Carmichael in her lecture said some things that seem relevant here:

“Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

She did not name any stakeholder. But her words might be relevant to a charity called Mermaids. Mermaids is a charity that describes itself as “a support group for children and young people with gender dysphoria and their families”. Its CEO, Susie Green describes herself as “parent to a daughter who was born male.” Mermaids is a relatively small charity (it had income of £127,000 in the year to March 2017) with a big reach. It has prominent backers and its advice and recommendations have been absorbed and adopted by many public bodies."

I'm not talking about the article I'm. Talking about what the Tavistock report the figures are that a large proportion of young people get no physical treatment procedures or interventions. What I was pointing out is that if you want to argue that there is a rush to physical treatment the figures do not support that claim you can not. Say one thing in one thread around treatment and then use the same figures in. Another to show the opersite

Dr Polly Carmichael, Gender Identity Development Service Director and Consultant Clinical Psychologist, said:

“The majority of our users do not take up physical treatment through our service, and any decisions around hormone treatment needs time and considered thought. The long term health and psycho-social wellbeing of young people is always our priority. In all our work we aim to be extremely careful to properly support people and allow them to explore their full range of options.”

So i attempt to engage in good faith and you waste my fucking time hmm

There's 30 seconds you'll never get back! Lesson learned though, eh?

Oh so there was no need for the snide 'who knows on this forum' as you knew the answer

So i attempt to engage in good faith and you waste my fucking time

Its early and im still tired

But even i know thats not what that article says bespin

Hi rufus the Tavistock use intervention to mean physical treatment and not talking therapies as 100% of young people who attend get some form of thst

I think it would suit some people in RL to pretend that someone worried about the lack of intervention is also worried about the lack of medical procedures

Which is not the case in loads and loads of non trans situations

So you beleive that 80% of young people do not receive any medical intervention by the Tavistock the uk leading centre for young people. Would that be correct?

This is a question not an appropriation of your view

And i think ive answered my own question there

They are different

So someone coukd be upset at the lack of medical intervention but perfectly happy with the lack of a medical procedure

You used them

You used both those phrases

So I know how i use them....i know how the medical profession would use them

You? No idea how you use them....

Bespin

I have politely asked you before not to misrepresent or appropriate my opinions.

Interesting points although I don’t see how people not having medical transitions is all that amenable to comparisons with conversion therapy?

In the context of this forum rufus who knows how people use them

Isnt 'medical intervention' and 'medical procedure' two different things

This is chillingly succinct and accurate..

Yy

The thing to understand is this is not about reaching the same goal, an idealised trans outcome common to both young people and middle-aged men, but to create two classes, the doll class, the class that is there to be played with, to be manipulated, and the agency class, the class that keeps control over their own wants and desires.

This is chillingly succinct and accurate.

Hold on rowantrees

You can not say Tavistock (NHS Gender Identity Services) report that over 80% of the young people who are referred to them do not have medical interventions/ transition

Then go on and on about forcing young people in to medical procedures you can not have your cake and eat it which onr do you beleive is true

Penny Mordant currently on R4 Today program discussing both the GRA and Conversion therapy.

WhyDidIEatThat
The issues is that with regards Gender Identity, a watch and wait approach rather than exclusively affirmation has been described by some as 'conversion therapy'.
Tavistock (NHS Gender Identity Services) report that over 80% of the young people who are referred to them do not have medical interventions/ transition.

see James Kirkup article: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

"This is an issue addressed by Dr Polly Carmichael, who runs the GIDS, in a recent talk to the Association for Child and Adolescent Mental Health. In her thoughtful hour-long lecture, she said this:

“The rapid rise in the number of assigned females…. exemplifies the importance of keeping discourse open and allowing different voices to be heard.

“You might say the increase in the numbers of assigned females coming forward is [because] that it’s easier for females to talk about their gender-diverse feelings so what we are seeing is an increase in awareness getting towards a better representation of the true prevalence of this among females.

“A converse explanation, a question: are there issues for young women around how they perceive their gender? There has been a worry by some that people who would previously have had an outcome around sexuality are now having an outcome around gender.”

(In other words, these are girls who do not readily identify with the predominant idea of femininity and are sexually attracted to biological females, and who would, a decade or two ago, have grown up to consider themselves lesbians.) Dr Carmichael’s conclusion:

“The truth is we don’t know, but we need discussion in order to be thinking about what this could mean.”

Just in case that’s not clear, let me sum it up: the country’s leading centre for the care of gender-variant children says its caseload has risen more than twentyfold (35 times for girls) in less than a decade. The head of that centre doesn’t know why that’s happened and says the question needs further discussion." (continues)

embedded link from article to Polly Carmichael's lecture

middle aged males are pushing for total access to female spaces without medical treatment while campaigning for kids to be put on damaging drugs that will affect them for the rest of their lives

The thing to understand is this is not about reaching the same goal, an idealised trans outcome common to both young people and middle-aged men, but to create two classes, the doll class, the class that is there to be played with, to be manipulated, and the agency class, the class that keeps control over their own wants and desires.

I don’t think making gay conversion therapy illegal for adults is the way forward at all, but young people should be protected from it.

NewStatesman & Society article:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/religion/2018/07/will-uk-ban-gay-conversion-therapy-work

WhyDidIEatThat

Yep so most of the reputable bodies agreed not to use it so to be part of that body which you need to be to practice then you agree not to use it also it does not work

So it’s ‘allowed’ but everyone knows it doesn’t work.