Gender neutral school uniform = Trousers

I haven't met a teenage girl that possesses not a single pair or trousers/jeans/shorts/sweatpants/ in her wardrobe. Girls already wear trousers and they are not a 'boys' garment.

The schools won't let them wear jeans or sweatpants though will they, and shorts are only an option in the summer unless they allow them with tights. The girls will be made to wear trousers, which alot of girls, me a tall girl included, find ill fitting, uncomfortable and unflattering.

I think we've established that some women and girls prefer trousers and some skirts for various readons so why not give them the option? Why force girls who prefer skirts into trousers? Oh yeah because men think a young girls legs are indecent, because they would rather blame girls attire on why they're harassed by boys then deal with the boys doing the harassing.

I didn't roll my skirt up either as I went to a 'progressive' school with no school uniform (in the 80's), Most girls wore jeans.
Why not give all the kids a choice of trousers, skirts, shorts (the smart sort, like city shorts).
I live in jeans and trousers but I think that everyone should have a choice and not have unnecessary restictions (like school uniform ).
This is taking away girls autonomy.

No I didn't. Pleated skirts or kilts don't lend themselves to that.

There are some appalling attitudes to girls on this thread.

Am I the only one on here who didn't roll her skirt up? I couldn't see the point in it, I already resented being forced to wear a garment that made me cold, forced me to shave my legs or face bullying, and affected how I could sit, there was no way I was making myself colder and exposing even more of myself.

As a feminist, I was delighted when my school finally allowed trousers for girls.
There is a phrase: “Who wears the trousers in that relationship?”, meaning who has the power.
Trousers are a sign of power and domination, that traditionally supported the patriarchy. Skirts or petticoats (as in the sneering phrase “petticoat government”) were a sign of submission and inferiority.
Striding around in practical trousers is way better than hobbling about in silly heels while hoping the wind doesn’t blow one’s skirt up, or having to be careful how you sit to avoid exposure of underwear.
I hope that years of wearing the trousers at school will encourage a powerful mindset in girls, and make them less likely to meekly defer to men in suits in the workplace.

Interesting. My first thought when I read this news item was that it was a typical knee jerk stunt which forces girls and women to fit in with what is normal for boys and men. That’s always the way with gender neutral bollocks. (Can you have gender neutral bollocks??)

Then I read the headteacher’s statement about trousers being more decent and the abuse comment. Sounds like he is implying girls need to change how they dress if they don’t want to be abused? Naughty.

But you know what? I don’t like to say this but where I live the girls at the local comp have their skirts pulled up so high you can virtually see their cervix and I actually don’t think that’s a very decent way to dress for a day of learning. It’s as old as the hills of course, girls did it in my day too. But to have a skirt on that is folded over so many times at the waistband that your bottom cheeks are visible if you bend over? Well, maybe everyone is better off in trousers.

Funny really because in my day (not that long ago!) we wanted to be allowed to wear trousers and they were banned. We used to mutter that the headteacher was sexist for keeping us in skirts.

As I said, recognising that people have the wrong motivations for banning skirts shouldn't result in throwing the baby out with the bathwater

It's very convenient for those like you who are incapable of comprehending any different views. You get to tag along with it
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As for "wrong motivations" - I would count yours in there as well.

Not actually read the thread then?

Yes I have, but my comment was based on previous, similar threads, where a number of posters generally post "skirts should be banned, I hate them, trousers should be mandatory" (paraphrased).

I lived in a country for a while that made it illegal for women to wear trousers or shorts.

That's policing women's clothes.
Literally.

A school announcing ' this is the school polo shirt, this is the school jumper, and these are the choices of shorts or trousers for all' is not policing girls.

I haven't met a teenage girl that possesses not a single pair or trousers/jeans/shorts/sweatpants/ in her wardrobe. Girls already wear trousers and they are not a 'boys' garment.

This isn't imposing an outlandish requirement on girls. They're school trousers, not dayglo onesies.

Kids get to wear what they want outside schools, but schools have a duty of care to create an environment that doesn't foster inequalities. If the practical effect of including skirts in a uniform choice is that only one sex 'chooses' them, and then either self-censors their own behaviour (how you must sit nicely, how physically active you can be, how short you can make them) or is policed by peers, then you aren't fostering that healthy environment.

As I said, recognising that people have the wrong motivations for banning skirts shouldn't result in throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Stilettos are banned too - a dodgy headmaster suggesting the reason is because they are too sexy and distracting for boys, rather than an impractical and damaging item that disproportionately hurts only one sex, shouldn't result in a backlash of protests for the right to wear stilettos.

Where skirts DO remain on uniform lists, they should of course be available for boys. But I won't mourn some schools dropping them entirely. I think girls will benefit overall from this.

I'm not a huge fan of uniform, but I think if you're going to have a uniform, trousers and shorts for all are a good thing. Practical and unproblematic. Op you clearly have a bit of an axe to grind about schools in general though. The majority of day-to-day problems (clothing-related or otherwise) in schools are caused by the pupils, not by 'power-crazy' teachers and the restriction of freedom and choices.

I hate the way that it seems to be girls 'forced' into specific clothing

Boys already are: trousers, trousers, or trousers.

Maybe we should all just go back to tunics and hose.

I already have done. Leggings are basically modern-day hose and I wear them with a long top.

Am I alone in remembering that school tights itched like crazy?

I'm ok with this, I would have killed for the option to wear trousers in high school (all girls school) and was made up when I was moved to a mixed school and everyone wore shorts everyday.

What I'm not ok with it the lack of appropriate summer uniform in secondary schools. I have had a very poorly child being sent home due to heat several times this past few weeks. No shorts and blazers on when moving around school, it's awful and kids are suffering. We live in England aircon isn't the norm here.

Any problems I have had with thrush or cystitis were when I wore trousers.

Good point. Although I've found that tights are the worst for bringing thrush on. I had to buy the kind with a diamond gusset in the crotch and then cut the gusset out. The option of cotton trousers, unlined, would have been the best for me.

I knew there'd be someone on this board delighted by this.
I've never got why some people are so anti dress/skirt on here.
Let people wear what they want.

Not actually read the thread then?

The closest we've got to 'delighted' was "I'm OK with this"....

Some people are anti-dress skirt, some are anti-trousers. How nice for us to be able to talk about it.

From my count, the overriding opinion is 'just put both on the uniform list, and let anyone wear what they want' - or, your third sentence.. But by all means, read something entirely different and use it to beat us, we're used to that by now.

I always struggle with these debates because I hate skirts and hate having to wear tights so I would have been so relieved to have to wear trousers that I cant see beyond that.

It had nothing to do with decency, harassment or anything, I finds tights sweaty and I am a very hairy lady so got teased if I showed my leg hair, or had to get rid of my leg hair and the relief at it all being covered up would have made school better for me.

but I know other women feel the exact opposite and find trousers show their bums off and make them feel exposed or don't get enough of a breeze.

I reckon I could have tolerated a kilt with compulsory knee high socks. so that would be the most gender neutral uniform for me.

I knew there'd be someone on this board delighted by this.
I've never got why some people are so anti dress/skirt on here.
Let people wear what they want.

Sorry not rtft but just seen them talking about this on the wright stuff.

So apparently the reason for skirt banning is because :

Little girls are sluts showing too much flesh
Little girls flash their sexy legs when sitting in the floor
Little boys harass the little girls by pulling up their skirts
It makes the school too uncomfortable letting trans girls wear skirts.
Trans boys will not have to change uniform.

So basically, girls have to change their uniform to make life easier for the school and trans kids, but girls deserve to have rights taken away anyway because they're a bunch of sluts and tarts.

Nice to know society is so progressive toward girls and their rights. I would have hated to wear trousers, I never wear them now, they don't suit most girls/women because they are tailored to mens bodies.

Girls in skirts were always being told off fro breaking uniform rules

At son's schools it was boys for being scruffy. The girls wore kilts which are virtually impossible to roll up or dresses in summer which would have to be hemmed to be shortened.

The girls now have the option of wearing trousers- it hasn't caught on.

If I felt skirts presented some sartorial advantage over shorts or trousers I'd be arguing for them to remain as part of school wardrobe, but I don't

Well bully for you. Hard as it is for some of you to comprehend trousers do not suit or are even comfortable for all women. Any problems I have had with thrush or cystitis were when I wore trousers.

As others have said let's police what women and girls wear rather than male behaviour.

the vast majority of the girls wore skirts, and I remember lots of policing comments from both the boys and the girls
See this is a problem to me. If girls clothes are going to be 'policed' that indicates they're not making a free choice, and its better that any 'policing' isn't done by teenage boys.
There is evidence that a lot of teenage girls feel pressurised to remove body hair, to have long hair, and to present themselves in a certain way. Are they being pressurised or 'policed' into wearing skirts, often very short skirts at school?

If the head really believes that wearing trousers will prevent girls being harassed, then he's got his head right up his arse.

Maybe we should all just go back to tunics and hose.
I think I'd look rather fetching thus attired and proper "gender neutral"

Suit of armour works too.

Dd wore trousers

Girls in skirts were always being told off fro breaking uniform rules

Girls in trousers don't

In her school obviously...no idea about any others

I'm OK with this.
I don't view skirts in schools as a critical right of anyone, and I wouldn't blink at any school that presented uniform choices of shorts and trousers for all.
If I felt skirts presented some sartorial advantage over shorts or trousers I'd be arguing for them to remain as part of school wardrobe, but I don't.

The head teacher's motivations may be wrong, but in principle I'd be thrilled if skirts were left off school uniform lists.

DD goes up to secondary soon and I know she'll quickly fall in with the other girls and stop wearing her trousers, and all the other freedoms of cartwheels and sitting comfortably with legs splayed will go.
And the knees together like a lady lessons begin.
She'll have the option of trousers, but the expectation of skirts.

If he is hung up on enforcing rules then he may be wanting to head off a boy insisting on the right to wear a skirt, and think if it's trousers for all then that won't be possible. If LM had been at a school where the girls had been made to wear trousers then they would have had no grounds to insist on their right to wear a skirt in order to 'dress as the girl they truly are' because they would be dressed the same as all the girls (and boys).

This is based on my assumption of abuse = abusing school rules as opposed to sexual abuse. The emphasis on 'decency' is concerning as well as the authoritarianism

This is how I read it. With all the gender bending going on at the moment they probably just want to take that element out of it so that they don’t have people seeking attention by wearing ‘other’ uniform and stating it’s their right due to being trans. By all means go and buy your trousers from the boys or girls dept but anything that takes out the ‘cross-dressing’ element of trans kids is helpful IMO. How often do trans stories start with “I never wanted to wear trousers, I always wanted to wear pretty dresses”? Now if they feel the need to dress ‘like a girl’, guess what, they’re already doing it.