Gender neutral school uniform = Trousers

I'd find it 'distracting' from my work if I had to wear uncomfortable clothes. And back when I was at school and unable to go to the loo exactly when I needed, really distracting if I had to wear clothes that couldn't readily accommodate a flood barrier. Is a girl's need not to be distracted by her clothing less important than whether a boy might be distracted? Who's problem is that?

Make all girls wear trousers and you'll still find men and boys who lust over a neat ankle. Covering up female flesh as a solution has its logical end in the burka FFS.

but to attract the attention of teenage boys.

And what's wrong with that?

During lessons your legs are under a desk anyway so the teenage boys can't see.

It's not the teenage boys that have the issue - it's the adult men that don't want to see young girls legs because they are perverts that see children as sexual objects.

Hey, I'm as feminist as they come, but why do they roll up their skirts at the waist band then? So they can run? Oh, c,mon.

Straight skirts well below the knees. We either hiked them up or rolled them up to run.
They made us kneel on the floor to prove our skirts were below the knee. We were only allowed to wear pants under skirts in the dead of winter until we arrived at school at which time we were required to remove them.
You could not run in the damn things but they were the fashion so that is what we wore.
I got over fashion the year I was 14.

Timelady I rolled mine up becasue it was what all the otehr girls did.

How it came across to men / boys was not something that was in my mind at all.

We need to remmeber that not everyone has the same motivations. A man's assumption that a woman or girl wearing a short skirt is doing so to show off her legs to the opposite sex is an incorrect assumption. While fashions and society are focussed on the male gaze, for individual women, there many be a variety of reasons that they make the choices they do from the options they are given.

A man at work told me that all women at work who wear heels do so so to make their calves look appealing to men like him, from behind. How many women were consciously thikning that when they bought / put on their shoes. Not all of them, by a long chalk.

And this other bit:

"Why is it important for girls to look pretty but not important for boys? "

Have you never met a teenage boy?

Surely most people like to wear clothes that suit them, certainly teen adn up and into elderly. Many people rock a "style" that is their own. There is huge diversity and pleasure in dressing for many people, and of course picking clothes that suit you is a perfectly normal thing to do!

• aghast at anyone who thinks teenage boys aren't trying to look attarctive Have you ever waited for one to get ready? Been shopping with one? I mean I'm sure it isn't across the board, but the idea that boys are not inetrested in looking nice is, well, silly.

Not to attract pervert men...but to attract the attention of teenage boys.

"girls wanting to wear things that "suit" , " fit well" or otherwise look pretty are playing into the notion that how pretty you look really matters."

Interesting.

When I said "fit well" I meant comfortable. I didn't mean "fitted to show off" or anything like that. I mean the right length, comfy around the waist and hips and thighs (harder to achieve with girls beng such different shapes). You know, not too long or too short. Not rubbing anywhere. Not loose at the waist and tight on the hips or vice versa.

Just goes to show how loaded converasation around female clothing is and how easy to get at cross purposes.

Normally when people say "does it fit well" they mean is it the right size and comfy, don't they?

It is not appropriate for any working environment

I'm an adult, I only wear short skirts, shock horror to work!!! Don't sexulise my legs. They are a functional limb.

Girls roll up there skirts to rebel, not to distract pervert men. At my school lots of girls just wore small shorts under their skirts anyway. So this running and jumping argument it bollocks anyway.

Let girls choose whether they want to wear trousers or skirts, don't take options away from them. And alot of teenage girls would be horrified at wearing shorts to school - longer ones arn't exactly flattering on the chunkier leg.

Hey, I'm as feminist as they come, but why do they roll up their skirts at the waist band then? So they can run? Oh, c,mon.

I know why I used to back in the day - I thought it made me look more attractive. Nothing wrong with that either at that age; it was a distraction from the spots.

I've just realised the wisdom of my 70s era uniform. An A line tunic worn over a blouse, completely impossible to roll or otherwise hitch up, absolutely no 'gym slip' vibe about it. Fairly comfortable. Those with rebellious streaks pushed the limits on the bounds of platform shoe clumpiness.

Whilst my preference is for a skirt/short/trouser option for anyone there are aspects to this discussion that bother me (although personally prefer trousers when on because I used to worry that the weight would make my knickers fall down!)

Having seen my dd and friends perfectly able to roll a pleated skirt to ridiculous levels I can quite see why trousers might be preferred. It might be nice if we could wear whatever we like without anyone making judgements, but that is more than a tad idealistic. I suspect it is at odds with biology. Especially teenage biology. I mean, why do girls think ultra short skirts look good? Do you really think it's an abstract artistic perception?

girls wanting to wear things that "suit" , " fit well" or otherwise look pretty are playing into the notion that how pretty you look really matters.

Why is it ok for girls to want to look pretty and attractive but not ok for the boys to.notice that the girls look pretty and attractive? I mean honestly, Do you really believe that girls want to look the way they do is nothing to do with biology?

Why is it important for girls to look pretty but not important for boys?

What is that saying about a girls priorities in life compared to the boys?

is this whole "wear what we want" a way of dressing up " wear what fits in with sexist society sterotypes".

Schoolgirls grow quick. Many have that sort of giraffe thing going on.

They are not growing in this way deliberately to make men feel sexually overcome by their legs. It's just how they are built.

Time and time again the problem when you look at it is not the clothes, it's the body underneath. Humans seem to have a terrible problem with female bodies in reproductive years. We're not animals, we need to get over it.

thebewilderness

And so what, really.

What is so problematic about girls legs?

They're just legs. We all have them. And yet somehow perfectly normal legs turn into obscene sexual enticements, but only when they are attached to a female person aged between puberty and somewhere in the mid 30s.

There are two secondary schools near me where the girls only wear kilts and, believe me, they can clearly be worn as bottom-skimmers.

If they really wanted to be gender neutral they would have made it so skirts, trousers and shorts could be worn by boys and girls.

Children should be able to choose either a skirt or trousers.

The trans lobby are not going to be happy about the removal of skirts. Human rights and all that

She didn't 'choose' a 10 yo - she has one.
Frankly 'If she goes out in a skirt, it's appalling to me that men like you will "read" this as her being "deliberately sexy".' is applicable to any age.

"No, you were hoping I would say exactly what I did say smile. Stop being tiresomely disingenuous."

You know what I think?

"And, of course, you would choose a 10 year old."

Yes because my oldest child is 10, and about to start secondary school. She has already started her periods, is 5'2, and has visible breasts. Yes I DO pick her, and I know that plenty of men and boys will decide that she "looks older" and proceed on that basis.

I haven't missed seeing you on the feminism boards TBH.

I agree with everything Lass has written here.

"Same if a boy came in ridiculously tight trousers showing off his bulge"

????

When has this EVER happened?

String vests? All that signals is "I'm 80 and model myself on old steptoe"??????????

I have no idea where you're even getting this stuff from. It's just ???????????????????????????????????????????????

Do women go around checking out the "bulges" in secondary school age trousers?
No.
Do men?
More often probably.
Overall >> useless fucking comparison. There is NO equivalence between the levels of sexualisation in our society between schoolboys and schoolgirls.

Sardines,

No, you were hoping I would say exactly what I did say :). Stop being tiresomely disingenuous.

And, of course, you would choose a 10 year old. Pupils are at school until 18, not 10 (or 16 excluding the 6th form). And you will not, by fiat, stop boys and girls looking at one another (and it is mutual) sexually any more than King Canute managed to stop the tide by his command.

The Bewilderness,

I think running is important so trousers will be ideal.

Why do you think girls roll their skirts up?

One reason is simply the same reason kids leave their top button undone or do weird things with their ties, or don't strictly conform to footwear or hair style rules - small acts of rebellion against authority.

The trick pulled by good schools is to have a few rules which are made to be broken - e.g. they set the skirt length a few inches below what is actually perfectly decent.

For schoolchildren read schoolgirls.

I have seen MANY schoolboys in my life in too tight trousers that they have grown out of, and NO-ONE stares at their "bulges" (WTAF) do they. Some notice their trousers stretched round their bums (or up around their ankles) and think, oh look his trousers are a bit tight, he's grown out of them. How many think OOHHHHHHHHH look at that little MINX. he's just asking for it, putting it out there like that, what a TART.

Nope, come on, nope. Society does not view schoolboys as sexual objects, is why.

This is all pretty basic level. I mean, seriously.