Gender neutral school uniform = Trousers

Stick with the easy issues if you want.

I said "The girls are simultaneously less able to be provocative, and better protected" if they wear trousers (meaning, as considered by the people who run schools)

I'm so sick of reading about all these provocative little minxes wearing skirts.

It's absolutely bloody ridiculous. How did the world get like this?

I said "The girls are simultaneously less able to be provocative, and better protected" if they wear trousers (meaning, as considered by the people who run schools).

But there could be more. There's all this trans stuff around now, so if the girls can wear skirts, transgirls have to be allowed to as well. And then the school gets calls from people complaining that there are girls in that school's uniform with their skirts rolled up to nothing, and also people complaining that boys are wearing skirts.

But as for "boys allowed to wear skirts", it's already happened in a few places. Once warm weather arrives and the boys are forced to stay in long trousers, some of them have followed the obvious path of dressing like the girls. There might have been a time when no self-respecting teenaged boy would do this, but with so much gender uncertainty around, it may seem easier. If schools find that an embarrassment, it's another reason to say "Make 'em all wear trousers and we'll be done with all this nonsense".

At least it does away with the whole issue of girls wearing skirts that are too short, always a problem in Secondary school. No tights needed either. I don't however think it should be compulsory. It should be a choice. If they really want to be gender neutral, are boys going to be allowed to wear skirts? The world has gone mad.

You know, at our primary, they had the children design the uniform in 2011. And it is lovely. Trousers, skirts, dresses which can come from anywhere, they just have to be the school colours. Logos on shirts that you buy from school and that's it.

They aren't interested in what the girls want, think or feel it's all about the boys

Yes I saw that. Hadley Freeman also mentioned it in The Guardian saying much the same.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/05/dolls-dresses-no-proof-not-girl-pink-v-blue

Janice Turner briefly commented in the Times today - 'has anyone asked the kids?'

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/let-the-kids-choose-their-own-school-uniform-mh375btds?shareToken=d7d04062a9b5b89010b9b48004148f32

Fair enough, Lass. I just didn't want to misrepresent you.

ISaySteadyOn no apology needed. I was probably just defending heels so vociferously. I'm usually in ballet flats but they are just as hated as heels!

Sorry, Lass. I somehow got the impression you did wear heels. Point still stands. Think we're agreeing on principle though.

Tailored trousers are only a good choice if they are tailored to fit your body. Like tailored skirts or any other piece of clothing cut to fit. Most of us choose to wear clothes that are comfortable, in colours and styles that suit us and match the conditions (weather, AC etc). It's really only when rigid uniforms are imposed that people find themselves wearing clothes that don't fit well, are colours that don't suit, are too hot/cold etc. Why schools think this is such a great idea that will make us love our schools is beyond me.

Uniform trousers are miserable for women. I do not know about school uniforms, but I hated the trousers that are designed for men whose waist to hip ratio is so very different from women's. To fit the hip I had to use the belt to gather in six inches of the waist or have them tailored.
Don't even get me started on how miserable they were for us when we menstruated. We called them pants because they are "pants".

I don't want to pile on a poster who's not posting in their natal language but Happy isn't the only one who's given the impression that they see this as purely a style choice. As it happens, I adore tailored trousers but this isn't the thread. This is about the comfort and dignity of girls.

Whenever I had heavy, irregular periods (adolescence and peri-menopause) I always chose skirts because, unlike trousers, they skim your arse. They're less likely to show the outline of an extra thick sanitary pad and they're less likely to give you away if you flood. I really don't know how I can put it any plainer.

Lass posted this yesterday and I think she has a point. I think some feminists just loathe the idea that there are girls and women who like things associated with femininity.
I've known feminists who have what verges on a visceral dislike of skirts. And I partly get it - I'm also of that generation that can still remember trousers being forbidden at work and it used to make me furious. But if you can't see past that then I really don't know what else to say.

Personally I like skirts and dresses and always wear them out of preference

I don't see why girls and boys can't have the choice of both skirts and trousers (shorts in warm weather)

Celia Walden wrote a rather bizarre piece in the Telegraph on this yesterday - I couldn't quite work out her argument

I know from other threads that Lass wears heels. I don't because they are uncomfortable for me but I would never take away her heels. I just don't wear them

I rarely wear high heels but like you it is not for me to take anyone's choices away from me.

You said it yourself. Your posts missed what was being said by a mile.

You had no difficulty putting a bizarre interpretation on what I said.

Your suggestion of what I was suppose to be implying - that I was saying to a girl "right wear a skirt because your bum looks awful in trousers" like Lass is implying in the post before" was extremely offensive.

And frankly quite a nasty thing to say.

Lass I can call myself thick but I don´t allow you to call me that.

If I didn´t understand what you said correctly, you can say it nicely and say why I´m wrong. I´m not thick as I said before, I´m Spanish and English is not my native language so sometimes struggle with terms but anyway you really shouldn´t call names to anybody.

Given that I apologise because I understood your post wrong and though you were meaning that didn´t fit her bum, like the trousers are baggy in her bum (that´s not bad and lot of boys have that)

Anyway please, don´t call me anything near of thick again. That was really awful and it made me feel sad

Quite, Lass. The demonisation of skirts drives me up the wall. Trousers are uncomfortable for me. I can't sit still in them so I wear long loose skirts.

I think the main difference here is between expanding choice and restricting it. I know from other threads that Lass wears heels. I don't because they are uncomfortable for me but I would never take away her heels. I just don't wear them.

In this instance, rather than open up the choice to everyone, a choice is taken away from, oh look, girls.

The sad thing here it's that you all are saying uniform trousers are not flattering for girls

You are right - you are being thick if that is what you got out of this thread.

course but should we really say to a girl: "right wear a skirt because your bum looks awful in trousers" like Lass it's implying in the post before

I said nothing of the kind. It is interesting that you twist it to being about looks. I said tailored trousers would be "a nightmare for" Tailored trousers would have been awful for this girl because without tailoring/alterations they would not have fitted her.

Very interesting that you chose to interpret tbat which was referring to the lack of comfort and lack of fitting to mean what you thought.

@InfiniteSheldon I really want to see it, really, but I can't. So I fit in everything you're saying why girls should wear skirt and no trousers. When I was a teenager (and until I started with the pill) I had very strong periods. I had to leave class to go change, sometimes every half an hour and would wear three layers of underwears to have more protection and so my sanitary towel (that in those times were huge) wouldn't move. For me trousers at that time were the best, provide me more fixation, and I was really scared to wear skirts and to have blood falling from my legs (I had nightmares with this). So I can't understand the period point.

And about body shape, my type was very curvy when teenager (and now, of course) I had a tiny waist and big hips and really thick tights that doesn't match with the rest of my body. But again, I didn't see issues with trousers. And I told you before my experience in my highschool with no skirts and the girls were really happy with that rule, anyway the ones that really liked skirts still could wear them outside the school...

Also what about the wee sitting thing? I don't get it. I wee seated and wear trousers... Really sorry, but genuinely don't understand

Boys do not have anything like the same variations of shape as girls do you can't compare the two! Surely you are able to see that. They also don't have periods and more minorly don't have to wee sitting down

@InfiniteSheldon Sorry I must be thick, but I don't understand why our body (women body) doesn't allow us to wear trousers. Boys have between them different shapes and trousers are nicer for ones but not for another (Boys with really fatty legs have to stick with them, right?)

The thing is doesn't matter for boys that the trousers are nice or not they're wear them (as same as suits or whatever male clothes), so they don't focus if they look nice, it's just a uniform. Can not the girls have the same thing? To grow knowing the can focus in another thing about not looking good?

And yes, uniforms are going always to be bad for some shapes of kids (boys or girls doesn't matter) but they're uniforms, it's impossible to be right for everybody. If we want totally free choice, then the uniform should be out. But again for sure some rules are applied on clothes for the no-uniform schools. Like when I was a kid in my school girls could not wear skirts and boys couldn't wear shorts, and I'm from the south of Spain (more than 40 degrees in summer). So really free choice would not be available, right?

Tailored trousers are the worst. I can't bear them.