"Cotton Ceiling" evidence thread

Yes, that's an entirely reasonable assumption when I just said "bring the debate" hmm

Yes those who suggest that people with views they don't like go somewhere else are really looking to debate. To use your own phrase, that doesn't wash.

You do clearly live in a bubble.

Yeah, the bubble where I actually look beyond this site to see what other lesbians, trans people and feminists are saying rather than just staying in an echo chamber where just one side of the argument is bounced around.

And you don't sound like you like MN too much. Hence the suggestion.

I like Mumsnet a lot thank you very much. It has lots of interesting forum areas. Actually, you sound like you don't like the discussion element of it. Perhaps you should follow your own suggestion.

Work it out for yourself. Calling someone something they're not in an attempt to shut down debate pretty much qualifies you I'd say.

Do feel free to find one more to your liking.

This is actually an open forum, part of Mumsnet which, last time I checked was not classed as a gender critical organisation, which means different views should be expected. If you can't handle the fact that some women might disagree with you then tough.

As I said, you're quite transparent.

You certainly are in a bigoted, bullying type of way.

Wow Bd, all sorts of wrong there. The fact the person does not even consider lesbians to be normal women says a lot about them. How the hell are women protesting against the attempted hi jacking of our spaces and identity considered to be the hostile, violent and threatening ones? But trans gender people post shit like this but we're still to believe they're frightened and in need of protection? Bloody joke!

I’m fb friends with people you would describe as TRA. I’m a straight woman.

I ... think.. from what I can gather...they do not agree with all the crazy stuff you are posting here. They are objecting to being portrayed as people who agree with the crazy stuff and that it is divisive and misleading.

To be honest I’m too afraid to ask directly, but that’s the impression I get.

I mean no one would really defend the stuff above would they?!

@MillyTheKid I'd recommend looking beyond this site and ask yourself is this something that trans people and lesbians seem to be generally talking about?

It's all over Tumblr and Twitter. It's been discussed at WPUK meetings. Google "cisbian" and "cotton ceiling".

@Datun, the post you seek is transgender-uber-alles.tumblr.com/post/141385666859/trans-women-shouldnt-tell-people-theyre-trans

How do we keep the extremists out and only let the genuine trans people in, MillyTheKid?

I think it would be wrong to assume that these people speak for all trans people. Just like homophonic straight people don’t speak for all straight people.

From what I've seen it would indeed be wrong to assume that. You can trawl through the net to find extremes in any group and lump them together in one thread to make that group look bad. You only have to look at recent political campaigns that have demonised groups of foreigners to see how it works. I'd recommend looking beyond this site and ask yourself is this something that trans people and lesbians seem to be generally talking about? It clearly isn't and, if reactions to the Pride demonstration are anything to go by, most lesbians who reacted didn't feel that the protesters represented them.

I think it would be wrong to assume that these people speak for all trans people. Just like homophonic straight people don’t speak for all straight people. Surely the majority of all people straight/gay and/or trans can agree to consent being crucial.

What strikes me is that it is seen as a right to date and have sex. Whilst I can totally see it is desirable for trans people and I hope they do find love... it isn’t a right that overtakes the right to consent. One of the blogs was discussing the impossible situation of being rejected if upfront and being potentially murdered if they lie. Horrific that they live in fear. Murder is never okay nor is any kind of abuse or violence. But it’s tone is implying you should be allowed to lie. That the only reason not to lie, is the threat of violence (rather than deception being bad just because of the violation of the lie based consent, without any threat). That lying is preferable to a single life. That I find shocking.

I don’t want to be anti anyone, but I do think a slightly warped thinking is pervading.