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Original poster

Is the left collapsing?

82 replies

Bamc1977 · 01/07/2018 12:48

I recently watched an interesting video from a controversial YouTuber arguing that the left have taken the contractions and absurdities in the ideology to their logical conclusions and are now slowly collapsing m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd2FTtu0sVE&t=3024s
This vlogger isn’t a feminist and seems to be an old fashioned liberal from the past. So I wondered what feminists who are not onboard with trans agenda though, if the same conclusions are being reached by those with different political perspectives? I’m particularly interested as I was a Labour Party member who quit the party in disgust and joined UKIP and this youtuber is one of several high profile ones that have recently also joined

OP posts:
Original poster
Bamc1977 · 01/07/2018 14:28

“The problem is that what the left has done with ID politics is actually fairly similar in end point to what people like the alt right are doing. So it sort of stops being about right vs left and starts becoming more about ... well I’m not sure to be honest. I’m a scientist not a politician/sociologist“

I agree. My understanding is that the alt right is very similar to the far left. The alt right are basically the national socialist fascists of old rebranded. I’ve noticed that the news media in this country however doesn’t actually understand what the alt right are and call people like the recently jailed activist ‘Tommy Robinson’ alt right or far right when he is clearly neither. This lack of understanding and the spreading of misinformation makes dealing with the real alt right threat more difficult. In America, Richard Spencer often called the leader of the US alt right is clear about what he wants, things like free national healthcare along with the abolishment of free speech and an all white ethnic state are some of his policies. It’s not a right wing capitalism vs socialism movement at all, it’s a racist and nationalistic one and the journalists clearly don’t seem to have done any research on it. The dividing line that it seems to be about is the supremacy of the group over the individual. Individual rights don’t matter to these people and individual rights is what they want to abolish. Fascism described an ideal society as like a bundle of sticks all fastened (the root of the word) tightly together being strong as bundle but weak individually or “all within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.” A fascist said that but it could just have easily have been Stalin I guess? The only difference seems to be diversity. The far left welcome almost every type of diversity except diversity of though and diversity of opinion. The fascists want no diversity at all. But they look very similar to me.

OP posts:
womanformallyknownaswoman · 01/07/2018 13:51

The left has been so compromised by Neocon policies that class no longer exists for them - unless it's Trans class - a ticket to nowhere on the train of the 1%

UpstartCrow · 01/07/2018 13:38

It also uses tactics from totalitarian systems including breaking bonds between us, making people suspicious of each other, and afraid to talk openly.

LangCleg · 01/07/2018 13:30

IMO, many people with neoliberal views imagine they are left wing. They aren't, but they are wrecking the left from within.

Yes. The current iteration of ID pol is a capitalist wet dream, serving up the population into nicely delineated market segments.

UpstartCrow · 01/07/2018 13:19

IMO, many people with neoliberal views imagine they are left wing. They aren't, but they are wrecking the left from within.
The Left has tolerated this, because change was needed, but they didn't have a clear vision of what that looked like. They've moved in the wrong direction away from class analysis into identity politics.

The alt right is the biggest threat to democracy we've seen in modern times.
UKIP is a palliative. Its not one that any left wing person would consider.

Bowlofbabelfish · 01/07/2018 13:06

For full disclosure I see myself as fairly left wing/old school left wing. I’m horrified by what’s happening to labour, and I’m horrified by the alt right too.
There seem to be no centrist parties at all and common sense seems in short supply across the political spectrum.
It’s a mess

Bowlofbabelfish · 01/07/2018 13:04

The problem is that what the left has done with ID politics is actually fairly similar in end point to what people like the alt right are doing. So it sort of stops being about right vs left and starts becoming more about ... well I’m not sure to be honest. I’m a scientist not a politician/sociologist

But my view is that both are ending up in the same place. The alt right are attacking along race lines and the MRA groups (of which the subset of TRA activists who cause trouble are a part imo) are attacking along sex lines.

It’s a pushback against the rise of women and ethnic minorities IMO. Before you could be a mediocre white man and be king of the universe for it, but less so now (which is a good thing.)

The result will be a total loss of class based protection for women and minorities, in favour of white men and their sexual rights/rights to be in charge. And corporate dominance. In fact, the corporate dominance is here already. I was watching the new blade runner a while back and musing on how that aspect was seen as a dystopia future then and is now just the norm.

The left and the alt right are coming at it from different angles but it’s going to end up in the same place.

We are fucked, basically, because historically the only thing that makes people pull together again is a huge war or catastrophe