A very compelling reason not to report rape

The CPS should have disclosed that evidence that weakened the case against her sooner

What evidence was that?

I regard neither the Telegraph nor the Mail as publishers of facts btw. Eliding two different crimes into one and then blaming the first crime for the consequences of the second is a logical fallacy.

For reference: the rules of misogyny

Here's the really big distinction that you are purposefully ignoring: assault is not a false accusation and incitement to violence is also not a false accusation. These are THREE SEPARATE CRIMES. So anyone who makes a false accusation and also attacks the person they accuse, the violence is separate from the accusation. If I make a truthful accusation and then assault my rapist, the assault is still a crime even though the accusation is not. When you are blaming a false accusation for causing a man's death, you are wrong: it is the assault that has caused that death, not the accusation.

I would suspect that most of the population are unaware that private criminal prosecution even exists, with it being the exclusive preserve of the rich. The CPS should have disclosed that evidence that weakened the case against her sooner, she might still be alive if they had. Bearing in mind that she was never tried nor convicted for false accusation and EA's libel case was thrown out of court for being vindictive, the least we can do is presume her innocence, something which you have so far refused to do.

Oh look, a man blaming women for the actions of a gang of men. Twice. First rule of misogyny: women are to blame for men's actions

You didn't even read the articles did you? I'll call this the "third rule of feminism" just angrily type because someone doesn't agree with you, without checking any facts first.

Sadly for you, it was entirely predictable that you'd attempt to wriggle out of your nonsense previous post so I selected two examples (out of the many) where women were directly involved in the physical attack. I'll think I'll blame the women for their own actions thanks. Sadly I'm sure you'll argue the "first rule of feminism"* but it's quite clear.

As for private criminal prosecutions, I think they should be outlawed. We shouldn't have access to justice being conditional upon ability to pay.

Luckily for the rest of the population what you think doesn't matter. Legally and morally he had every right to pursue her as I said earlier.

*women are never responsible for their own actions, because umm patriarchy.

Actually it IS a crime to incite violence. Albeit not a rape but a woman is facing 22 years for inciting one man to kill another. Obvs the murderers are guilty, but lying about a rape that sees a man injured or killed could be seen as having encouraged or assisted in the commission of an offence.

Oh look, a man blaming women for the actions of a gang of men. Twice.

In case it's not absolutely clear: the blame for beating the accused men to death lies with the people who did the beating, not with the women who complained of rape.

I'd say being beaten to death is very much on the physical injuries spectrum.

Oh look, a man blaming women for the actions of a gang of men. Twice. First rule of misogyny: women are to blame for men's actions. People who take the law into their own hands are choosing to break the law, because we do not permit vigilanteism in the UK.

That's some sort of miscarriage of justice. These women are "vulnerable" or have MH issues, like that makes it ok.

No, it doesn't make it ok. What it does mean is that prison isn't the right place for them. FYI, Ian Brady who raoed and murdered several children was also not held in prison but in a secure psychiatric unit, because of his mental health issues.

Why the fuck shouldn't AE have pursued his claim? He had every right to.

Actually he didn't have a right to pursue his libel claim, which is why the judge threw his case out of court on the grounds of it being clearly maliciously motivated. As for private criminal prosecutions, I think they should be outlawed. We shouldn't have access to justice being conditional upon ability to pay.

A false accusation can't leave you with physical injuries

Really? You really posted that?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9788265/Teenager-falsely-accused-of-rape-beaten-to-death-by-gang.html

I'd say being beaten to death is very much on the physical injuries spectrum.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2816839/Woman-jailed-FALSELY-accusing-man-rape-street-encouraging-mob-bystanders-chase-beat-death.html

This guy died as well. But fuck 'em eh? Most men who rape get off so it's only a bit of collateral damage.

The cases made in the OPs article have clearly falsely accused men of rape. One was found guilty in court, the other in all likelihood would have as well.

It's quite interesting to see on this board the argument that rapists rarely see their day in court, and that if they're convicted they've very much done it.

This argument no way extends to false rape allegations though. No Siree. You're quite happy to say they're even rarer still, but a conviction? That's some sort of miscarriage of justice. These women are "vulnerable" or have MH issues, like that makes it ok.

Why the fuck shouldn't AE have pursued his claim? He had every right to.

I feel so angry and sick reading this.

Damn, finger slipped and posted too soon.

recognising that presumption of the defendant's innocence and #ibelieveher can and should coexist. The victim has been raped but may be mistaken as to the identity of the attacker. The victim may not clearly remember details of the attack and that makes it impossible to prove the criminal intent and so guilt cannot be conclusively proved. The victim still deserves all support and to be believed, but that stops short of jailing the perp because our justice system is supposed to err on the side of presumption of innocence. I don't agree with defendant anonymity because so many rapists are serial attackers and it's only when the charge is reported that other victims come forwards. I do believe that rape charges making front-page headlines and reporters turning up to photograph and film arrests are poor newsroom decisions that reflect how rapes continue to be treated as salacious "sex scandal" stories when they are in fact about male entitlement.

@racecardriver A false accusation can't leave you with physical injuries, STIs, nor pregnancy. A false accusation can't leave you with vaginismus, where the vagina cramps involuntarily when penetrated and leaves the woman incapable of sex or tampon use and facing agony at every smear test. False accusation doesn't leave you having panic attacks during smear tests, coil fittings, and well woman exams.

A lot of the problems with false accusation could be solved with mandating that the press publish corrections as prominently as they publish the original incorrect thing, e.g. if the original story was a front page headline the correction should be as well, having cases come to court faster so that defendants spend less time in limbo, and recognising that presumption of the defendant's innocence and #ibelieveher

I'm annoyed that we hear a lot about suicide risk in falsely accused men and nothing is said about the women who commit suicide when their rapist is acquitted/not charged etc.
Total double standards. Men's lives are worth more.

This is a fraction of a fraction of a percent of all women who come foward each year and you are way way more likely to see the rapists go to jail than the woman accused. And in given to understand rape convictions are woefully low.

They are. But do you not see that when a woman is deciding whether to report a rape, this is an issue which might make you think "why bother", because the chance of getting a conviction and sending your rapist to prison is minimal too. Add to that the treatment the woman will get in court which can be horrifying, look at the Ulster rape trial where the complainants underwear was shown in the court and she was cross examined over a period of 8 days. Look at the vilification she might receive on social media like the Ched Evans complainant. And then look at the possibility that she might not be seen as truthful and either the police/CPS might prosecute or the alleged rapist might take out a private prosecution? Look at the Layla Ibrahim case I linked to below. Where is the strong evidence that she lied? And yet she went to prison 6 months pregnant.

Do you understand why it's yet another reason (and a terrifying one) why women might be reluctant to report a rape?

”No woman should be prosecuted for reporting a rape without genuine evidence of malicious intent.”

I think that’s fair. Onto this which is worse thing, I think it has to go to an actual rape itself. Rape is something that hangs over most women’s heads in such a way that it infects almost every decision women make. Up to and including feeling free to be out and about in the world. All we men have to do to reduce the risk of being falsely accused is to avoid ever being alone with women we don’t know extremely well.

I’m also struck by the double standard in that when men are accused why are they never told that they should never be alone with women, especially crazy unstable ones? People will say to rape victims “why were alone with/ had a few drinks before/ traversing that street at that time or wearing those clothes?” Nobody ever polices the falsely accused men in quite the same way?

I do worry that this article, and those like it will disinclined women to come forward as I think it overblows the risk. The article itself states the at least 200 women have been prosecuted for false accusations in ten years which is what? 20 per year? This is a fraction of a fraction of a percent of all women who come foward each year and you are way way more likely to see the rapists go to jail than the woman accused. And in given to understand rape convictions are woefully low.

Misogynistic men always come out with that crap! They only care about themselves. They go on and on about rape accusations destroying poor men's lives...meanwhile those deviants Stuart Olding and that Jackson prick get signed to a new club! Ken Barlow and Kevin Webster (the actors) are on TV every bloody day almost in Coronation Street. Mike Tyson still around on TV.

But sure.... accusations DESTROY lives!

Meanwhile women are living with PTSD, physical injuries, mental scarring, isolation, fear from seeing their attacker who probably has walked free and living a lifetime of blaming herself and feeling distraught all because of some evil, repellant MAN!

Around 100,000 women are raped each year. A minuscule fraction of these rapists are convicted. Which means thousands of men have LIED about what went on. These men are liars. Yet no one cares.

Did a pp really just say that being accused of rape is worse than being raped or did I read that wrong?

From the Police Commissioners report a couple of years ago I recall that police in E&W submit 8% of rape complaints to CPS as provably false accusations. Only 2% are prosecuted. I think there's already quite a high bar to prosecuting someone for making a false complaint - it's absolutely not 'not enough evidence to convict'.

Fuck off Racecardriver. You're trying to tell me that having a man pin you down and stick his penis inside you against your will possibly with violence is not as bad as being accused of rape and having your reputation damaged?

I've seen it all now, someone sticks their cock inside you no big deal you'll get over it, get accused of rape end of the world.

Fucking hell all the rapists and rape apologists and fucked up prosecutors need to go create their own society where they can just rape one another, because of course rape isn't that bad you can get over it.

How horrendous that women are being jailed for reporting a crime. And I agree I’m sure in the majority of cases they will have been raped but evidence not enough to convict the perpetrator. So how can there possibly be enough evidence to prove they weren’t raped??

@metrorider but surely the consequences of a rape accusation (prison time, relationship break down, sex offenders register, being unable to find work, mental health problems, suicide) while different to the consequences of rape are equally serious. In many ways are crime where you attempt to Rob someone of their reputation is far worse than a physical assault. One can move past sexual assault (not all do of course but many do) but you can only move past allegations of a serious crime if the world lets you. There is also an undercurrent of the perversion of the rule of law where false accusations are concerned so that adds another element to it.

But what kind of mentally stable woman makes a false accusation? The whole thing just seems wrong and mishandled. Time for a think of the law surely. Anonimity for those accused of rape would do away with the justification for prosecuting false rape allegations altogether for instance.

This was a common practice in this area until the police were repeatedly embarrassed by evidence found when the serial rapists they had failed to pursue were finally caught. The evidence consisted of trophies from the rapes where the police had prosecuted the victims.
The common thread seemed to be that the police officers badgered the victims until the victims gave up on ever being believed and recanted so they could go the eff home and stop the abuse. Bingo! Charged and convicted. Exonerated when the serial rapist was finally found.
It happened so often it became a scandal, just like this news report is scandalous. Prosecutors abuse their power and the public pays the victim a token settlement for what should never have been done to them and lawmakers designate money to train the police not to be misogynists. It lasts a little while, then they go right back to abusing victims and their prosecution power.